Loading ...White Men’s Hostility to Black Women: A Deeper Look
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Census data reveal that the interracial marriage rate of black women (and mainly white men) has only modestly increased from 1% in 1970 to 4.1% in 2000. Research also shows that black women are overwhelmingly excluded as interracial dating partners, with one study showing that white men excluded black women as dating options at 93 percent.
The longstanding persistent exclusion of black women as a heterosexual relationship partner for white men (and other men of color) continues to exist in a society that today prides itself on colorblindness and even post-raciality. Quantitative polls that measure racial attitudes of whites today show a marked decrease in racial hostilities, however, these polls do not account for the complexities of frontstage and backstage racism, whereby whites manipulate racial performances for the settings that they are in. See Picca and Feagin’s research.
To understand the phenomenon of black women’s consistent exclusion by white men, I examined 134 contemporary white men’s thoughts, opinions, perspectives, and emotional reactions to black women as they expressed in in-depth online questionnaires. The findings reveal, overwhelmingly, that the white male respondents, despite most admittedly having very limited experiences with black women, held grossly negative views of them as culturally defunct, domineering, welfare queens, and unattractive unless representing a white aesthetic. For example, one respondent stated the following, when sharing his thoughts about black women:
Just the term ‘black women’ conjures up thoughts of an overweight, dark-skinned, loud, poorly educated person with gold teeth yelling at somebody in public. I hope that doesn’t make me racist but honestly that’s the 1st thing I think of (white male respondent)
This respondent is middle-class with no black female friends, rare interactions with black families growing up, and who states his interactions with black women only consist of work-related experiences, yet, he expresses strong racialized, gendered, and classed views of black women as the first impressions that come to his mind.
Another respondent, a middle class white male in his 40’s stated the following about black women and attraction:
Sexual attraction for me is a combination of physical and personal attributes. If I find a ‘black’ woman attractive, it is because their hair type and facial features are more representative of the [C]aucasian race. If that aspect is attractive, then their speech and intelligence level would have to be more representative of that found more prevalent in other races (such as [C]aucasian or [A]sian – i.e.: anthropological mongoloids.
This respondent, despite admitting to having no close black female friends and few personal interactions with black women, places whites and Asians as naturally more intelligent than blacks.
My research disputes convenient notions that only a few uneducated, southern bigots hold such strong deep-seated racist and sexist views of black women. The white male respondents in my study hold current and future leadership positions in society, with 42% possessing some college education, 30% a bachelor’s degree, and over 48% are middle class!
[Note: Brittany has a major book in the works on these issues and data.]
Cath Says: “but I think they are angels compared to my german fellows…. I think a lot of white Europeans are very racist and even more sexist than americans.”
Thank you Cath for posting this! You wouldn’t beleive how many commentators on here (including Seattle especially) say stuff like “The Germans have acknowledged their racism, but Americans are still in denial”. Say what? The same Germany that led millions of innocent civilians into the concentration camps and gas chambers? I’ve been to Germany myself and though I’m white, I’ve heard racist remarks while I was there toward Jewish people. The Germans, in general, from anecdotes of other friends who visited Germany, are an extremely racist ethnocentric group of people. Have been for a long time.
My friends even had a teenage German girl visit their home as an exchange student 20 years ago, and she didn’t even know about the Holocaust! Apparently, they deleted this particular bit of information from history books. I’ve also heard Germans boast about how German people were excellent engineers, artists, mathematicians, musicians, poets etc as if people of German descent are genetically superior to everybody else. What a bunch of nonsense. No wonder Hitler could turn them so easily! They were already programmed to be receptive to such ludicrous beeswax!
Anyway, thank you so much for contributing to this site and hopefully allowing many people a true European perspective!
The Germans acknowledged their racism??? Oh my god, what a bunch of nonsense. They told me the same thing my whole life, we are not racist and you are too sensitive.
Concerning holocaust, maybe that girl was just tired of talking about it and just pretended she doesn’t know anything about it. We hear about that on TV every single day and German students are attacked in the Netherlands, the UK ect. a lot. So that’s not easy either, especially when you were born 40 years after the war and you got nothinhg to do woth it.
But concernding black people…OH MY GOD!!! They may have kind of overcome the racism towards other Europeans, but especially black people have a hard life in this country. We are not taken seriously at all, unless you are a tall black guy born in germany and athletic, handsome and everyone wants to be like you.
But for us black women….Good lord, let me tell you something, all my black girlfriends have left germany, off the US and the UK. I already spent 2 years in the UK and next year I’m planning on heading to Canada.
Ha, I have to tell you some stories, please don’t believe Europeans when they say they are more open-minded.
I am lawyer and I used to work as a scientific researcher at the German PARLIAMENT. My boss once introduced me to a new colleague as the cleaner…And he then said if you are nice to her, she might prepare you an African dish…Remember, I am a lawyer and so was he.
The next day I told him I’m not gonna take it, and kicked me ou of his room.
That’s the way they do it on this country. They can’t be openly racist due to the history, but they make it look like a joke and expect you to just swallow it. Whick you usually do.
My primary school teacher used to hit me with a book right into my face. I was the only one that got hit. She used to ask my mum: how comes she speaks german that well? She’s confusing me. And she kept on beating me. Which is forbidden in Germany by the way…
My mum used to argue with her, and she kept on beating me. My dad then said to her if she does it once again, she will regret it. He had to take out the racial stereotype of the mad black man. And guess what? It worked, she stopped beating me.
These are just 2 expamplethat I picked just to show you taht this happens not only among educated people.
Racism is definitely accepted in ethis country.
Don;t let them confuse you when they say they love Barrack Obama. They love him as long as he stays in the US, but if he happened to run in this country…There is NO WAY a conurty in EU would ever accept a person of color as their head of state.
People who claim that Germans/Europeans are better than Americans are liers
I’m a l
But regarding
Hello Cath,
This is probably the only time I will respond here within this comment block, but wanted to quickly say that some folks come on here to twist the words around of other commentors and basically harass them. They challenge the main posts often–it’s one thing to challenge them if you have a legitimate claim with substance. But it’s not the case. They refuse to do any readings or “listen” critically and reduce all forms of racism to the individual level, then turn around and blame the targets of racism for their social locations and circumstances within U.S. society, etc.–particularly those who have been historically most marginal and oppressed in U.S. history and society. It’s kinda like that dirty type of fighting or bullying behavior of, kick ‘em while their down and keep ‘em down to make sure they won’t get back up, mentality. Very annoying.
But with relation to the comment–the first thing I have to say, is I think it’s wrong to suggest one type of racism or oppression is “worse” than another–all forms are painful and harmful. I believe when people make such suggestions, they are deliberately trying to cause conflict between the oppressed, which serves to set up barriers that prevent the different groups from unifying as a collective against the larger social forces that are responsible for all forms of racism and oppression. And this need not be reduced to the U.S. only. So, I would not suggest one type of racism or oppression is worse than another–and certainly not within or between nations. Though, I might suggest that there are situations where it is not exactly accurate or even appropriate to suggest all forms are entirely “equal” either–take feminism in the U.S. for example. I don’t think the situation of the white woman in history is the same as Black women in history–a whole discussion I will bypass here.
Now, with relation to the U.S. and Europe, Germany more specifically, I have said that Germany has acknowledged their racism and I still don’t take that back. I did not say Germany was not racist, nor did I say there is no longer any racism in Germany. Further, I made no comment on the treatment of Blacks in Germany or the treatment of people in color more generally in Germany. My understanding is that at least at the individual levels, it’s rather hostile towards Blacks, much like here. In terms of institutional racism in Germany, I really can’t speak to–I simply don’t know and it may be that Germany doesn’t even know since they do not keep a census. I don’t know what the poverty levels are like in Germany in general and if there are large proportions of Blacks in Germany are concentrated into segregated Black ghettos as here in the U.S., for example. There is much I cannot speak to on this end. Plus, I’ve never been to Germany–what I know is only through books/documentaries and knowledge from people who have either lived there or visited there.
So it brings me to this point, and whether or not you agree doesn’t really matter to me, but what I had said in the past on this site is that the U.S. has failed to acknowledge it’s AI genocide and give an apology for slavery-it won’t do either. Further, because of the nation’s refusal to do so, it blocks the ability to bring forth discussions on reparations. In this way, Germany is more progressive in addressing racism than the U.S. because Germany has paid out reparations and has outlawed, at least antisemitism and racism…not to say that doesn’t still exist there. That’s something I wouldn’t question. My understanding, however, is that it has more laws in place to handle it than the U.S. Here in the U.S. there are neo-nazi groups that are protected by the government through “freedom of speech and expression”–I would put a link to the National Socialist Movement’s website, but you probably cannot see it in Germany because of the more progressive laws, in my own humble opinion, that are set place in Germany than we have in the U.S. Hate groups are protected in the U.S. for the most part and only recently in U.S. history has this nation began to recognize “hate crimes”, define them as such, and treat them as such in the legal system. But notice here, it reduce the issue to the individual level–those occasional coo coo folks who are way way out there and ignores the larger problem. But the hate groups in the U.S. serve to reinforce other types of racism that allow whites to deny they are racist or that racism still exists in this society because the hate groups are “the real racists”, etc. In short, racism in this society plays out in many many forms, and perhaps the most dangerous is the denial that it exists and/or that it is harmful for groups of color any longer, etc., which of course ties into the idea that everybody in the U.S. is on an equal playing field, etc.
So when I speak of racism, it’s most often not at the individual level, but rather the institutional and systemic levels. They are entirely different levels of analyses and if confused, people cannot communicate on the same page–unless one is sharing their experiences within level of analysis of which the discussion is speaking to and making that explicit. But drawing out an example from the level of analysis (which I have done a couple of times) is different from taking an example and applying it to the whole group–I don’t do the latter. Or try not to….
On the comparisons between the U.S. and Germany–while qualitatively different, they are both nations responsible for incredible atrocities against human groups–Germany, even if by force from outside nations, has to some degree had to confront it. The U.S. has not, and refuses to. Germany does not have Hitler or his closest officials on their money for example. U.S. currency has slave owners and champions of AI genocide through it’s westward expansion in the U.S. Germany educates and remembers, at least Nazi Germany and the Holocaust, whereas the U.S. glorifies their history of slavery and genocide. But, it may be the case that like the hate groups here, where white America says, “see, ‘THEY’ are the ‘real’ racists! Not I!! I don’t wear a sheet or swastika!!!!”, Nazi Germany and the Holocaust may have the same effect on white German society where they perceive and measure all racism to the extremes, which serves to suggest they then, are not racist or play any role in racism because the “real racists” are, Nazis under Hitler’s regime, etc. And when they do engage in individual level acts of discrimination, etc., or even larger, they still don’t perceive it as racist because it is measured against Hitler’s Germany….
But there are many many examples. Let me leave one more comparison I’m aware of–Germany still has the concentration camps preserved–not for glorification of their fairy tale history from a white supremacist framework, but to remember so it will never happen again…hopefully it will never happen again to any group anywhere. But the U.S. has slave plantations preserved for some white supremacist bizarre nostalgic memory–maybe something in the so-called “romantic novel” or movie, “Gone with the Wind.” Throughout the nation are statues of slave owners and Indian slayers. It’s different.
So in closing, I think it is a mistake to suggest that racism in the U.S. or Germany is worse than the other. But I do think, again, be it through force from outside nations, Germany has come a bit further in dealing with racism than the U.S. That is not speaking to racism at the individual levels, nor does it speak to institutional racism that may exist in Germany. I hope that makes sense. And regardless if you agree or disagree, am very glad you’re here on the site participating in the blogs–you have much to add and it’s always great to get insights and perspectives from people who live in places outside the U.S.
Happy holidays to you and have a great 2012
Hi Seattle
I can see where you are coming from, and it is true that Germany is probably a lot more aware of the injust things they did than Americans.
For example there is a law that penalizes Holocaust denial ect. Also you mentioned the concentration camps which are preserved as a warning and to remember the victims of World War II. That is indeed very true, but…Be careful with the idea that these institutionalized mechanisms reflect the spirit of the population. As you may know Germany is a very formalized country, and the difference between what is institutionalized and what is reality is probably 100 times bigger than in the US.
Have you heard of the latest scandal?
A group of right wing nazis has killed a couple turkish and one greek shop owner over a whole decade.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,798450,00.html
You eally should read that article, it brings it to the point. They called that murder series “doner killing” in the German news. In case you don’t know, Doner is a traditional Turkish dish. That is the kind of racism I’m talking about. People are constantly stigmatized and disrespected in Germany, as we now know even after their death.
I agree with you: yes they are more aware of their own mistakes than Americans in an instutionalized sense. But on a daily basis I think racism is a lot more accepted than in the US. Always in a joky way of course…
And I’m not comparing the German countryside to New York. I’ve lived in Berlin and London and I’ve been to the US a lot of times. You are not going to see a person of african or turkish origin in a position of power, unless they are doctors.
It is indeed different for Asian people and obviously other Europeans. And if you are an African American you will not have many problems because Americans are always welcome for obvious reasons.
So in my opinion there are different forms of racism, there is racism which is accepted and racism which is not accepted. Racism again jews- nope. Racism against muslims and blacks – totally accptable.
Believe me when I say that the same people that go to concentration camps and make a sad face would not hesitate to make a nasty joke about black people’s features. I’ve spent my whole life around them dealing with their shit. And you know what their excuse is: we’ve had enough of all that PC stuff!
Meaning that their are tired of visiting concentration camps and being constantly reminded of their mistakes. To me it means they need a chargeback. And because they can’t pick on that one group their erased from their map, they pick on others now – always in a joky way of course.
I hope that makes sense.
Here’s another link of a party called Nationaldemocrats:
http://www.npd.de/
You should type in NPD and go on image search. These guys are not in the national parliament, but in several state parliaments in the former Eastern part, including Berlin.
It is proven that they were connected to the murderes I told you about in my precedent article.
They don’t make it as obvious as Neonazis in the States. But it is well known that they are the direct decendants of the NSDAP (Nazi party during World War II). The government of Germany has tried to prohibit that party twice – with no success because it came out that a lot of them actually were spies of the German Secret Service.
I really don’t know what is actually wrong with this country – it looks like they just don’t want to learn.
To me it’s a very unpleasant and very dangerous place, and my mental health has clearly suffered from growing up here
It makes sense to me Cath! Thanks very much for setting the record straight. Many commentators on here have never traveled outside the United States. Thus, it’s easier for them to just vilify America rather than admit racism exists all over the world.This is extremely naive, but they are merely speaking from a rather provincial background unfortunately.
Many people from other countries, especially Asians in America for example, have NO HESITATION about making extremely racist comments about African Americans. They don’t care one tiny bit if they “raise their children to be racists”. I am an ESL tutor and with some families I tutor in their home. I heard one Asian woman tell her children, with total nonchalance, “If a black man or woman rings the doorbell, don’t open it ever!” And that’s it! Like African Americans are some kind of horrible mystical beings who you should avoid at all costs.
However, within the school system the children, during February, which is Black History Month in America, learn everything about Martin Luther King and the Civil Rights Movement. They can quote all kinds of anti-racist facts etc but when push comes to shove, at least in Asian homes, it’s “Don’t answer the door!”
America really does practice racism in a much more subtle way than in the Jim Crow era. No, we don’t have separate drinking fountains and restaurants for whites and blacks. But, it’s harder for a qualified black person to get a bank loan than a white person. All things being equal, from what I’ve observed, white people are hired before African Americans. Plus, teachers tend to place black students in school tracking groups that veer them toward high school graduation rather than college prep. I could give you many other examples.
The point is that this racism, unfortunately has existed for a very long time, in various forms all over the world. It’s childish to say “It all started in America. And while Europe (‘glorious Europe..so much more tolerant than America’ lol) has truly knelt in remorse regarding their racism, America does not acknowledge it”. America has a long way to go, but it is not worse in any way, shape or form than Europe, and certainly not worse than the highly ethnocentric Germans.
In my opinion, Germans were very ripe for Nazism because the German people have been extremely nationalistic and “so proud of their Aryan heritage” for centuries. It’s disgusting really. They won’t even acknowledge today that if it weren’t for fear of America, the Soviet Union would have swallowed them whole, instead of dividing the country into East and West Germany.
Russia was certainly not afraid of Germany, after WWII, since Germany was in ruins, thank goodness! But the Soviets hesitated to confront the United States, so they just took half of Germany.But to talk to Germans, you would think the Russians (and the entire rest of the world..lol!) was shaking in their boots, even after the WAR, about the might of the Invincible Germans. It’s comical really. They are in such denial about so many things! You’d think they’d be ashamed, to say the least, about beating their chests with pride, after all the millions and millions of deaths they caused in both WWI and WWII they created.
They still boast about what competent engineers and mechanics they are. Like it’s “in their blood” or something. I did notice their engineers did come up with a very efficient way to kill Jews with the pesticide gas chambers and then the huge crematoriums.By the way (at Seattle) the biggest Holocaust Museum in the world is in America, NOT Germany!
The Germans also, ever the meticulous and “efficient” people they are, stuffed mattresses with human hair and made lamp shades from human skin. it’s ludicrous that some people on this site hold Germans, of all people, up as sterling examples of humanitarians!
Anyway, thank you, because an honest European perspective on racism is needed here. Please keep contributing. Any thoughts on racism in the United Kingdom? I’ve been to London twice, but am scheduled for a tour of England and Scotland in March. Will “report back” about what I observe regarding racism there. Anyway,if you have any time, what are your thoughts on the UK?
Hey Cordoba blue
Well I noticed that a lot of people from Asia, especially Chinese people are very racist. I agree with that.
Concerning the UK… You won’t hear any racist remarks against black or asian people By the way when they say asian the also include indians and people from pakistan.
The UK: well that’s a very interesting question. First of all I think the UK is what you can call the only country in EU where PC actually exists. Not because they are so nice and lovely but because they have to deal with that huge amount of people from the Commonwealth countries.
You will not hear any racist remarks from white people unless they are drunk football fans, I can almost guarantee you that. Like in the States, the white people in the UK learned how to hide their racism, unlike Germans who only hide it when it comes to Jews.
However to me the UK is a bit weird, especially outside London. I love London and I met the greatest people there, black, white, asian whatsoever.
But the British society is very aggressive in general. There is no doubt they have a very racist history, and when you see them in the Pub you can imagine them inavding all these countries. I’m not being sarcastic here, but you really should go to a pub in England and observe them. I personally always felt safer in the alleged dangerous black neighbourhoods. It was dodgy, but at least everyone was sober or on weed, but not as drunk.
Anyways, as I said, there is no open racism, but you will hear a lot of jokes about Australians, French, Germans. British people don;t show any emotions, but you can feel the aggression underneath their jokes, and I always had the feeling they need these jokes about EU and AUS people as a subsitute for racism towars blacks and Indians. Simliar to what I described about Germans.
And I sometimes felt like telling them they are not that much better than Germans from an historial point of view.
They never paid for what they did to other countries, but let’s be honest:
Do you really think Germany would have such a bad reputation if they had killed black people or any people of color rather than Jews? Do you think anyone would punish them they way they are being punished if they had attacked an African country and not France and the UK and pretty much every other EU country?
That is exactly the reason everyone points at them. And as I said, I really don’t like living here, but I don’t think a country like the UK is in the position to make judgments. There are apparently populations in the world that never make war such as the Mosuo in the south of China. If they point at Germany ok, but please, not the Brits…
Which brings me to the next point. Holocaust museums. Of course we need that, and I’ve been to the Holocaust Museum in Washington DC. If I remember right there is also a museum of Native american history on the Museum Mall (That’s how it’s called right?). But if I remember right they don’t mention the genozide towards the ntaive americans at all. I heard they were not allowed to do so and that the only way to mention it because it is clearly a part of America’s history is to put guns in between the pictures and the pieces of art.
Also I remember that there is a museum of African American history in DC but it is not where the other museums are, but in some african american district noone shoudl go to. (I’ve seen some places in DC, I couldn’t believe my eyes. Such poverty, it’s almost as bad as in Mali!)
Anyways, I’m getting lost here. What I actually wanted to say: the Eneglish speaking world is very motivated when it comes to Holocaust museums and pointing out what Germany did. Which is correct because it needs to be remembered. But why does Washington DC need a Holocaust museum in downtown more than a museum of African American history?
I have the feeling that it’s very easy for white English and American people to point at Germans rather than thinking about what they did.
And I personally think the reason is what I mentioned in the very beginning: they had the nerve to kill a group of white people and to attack EU countries. So the fact this is remembered so much all the time is racist in itself, considering the fact that a genozide towards blacks, natives etc. is pretty much ignored, in the UK maybe more than in the US.
That’s what I tried to explain to white people in the UK, but to them that is a different ballgame.
One Brit said to me: well at least the Indians have a railway now.
Well, phantastic!
@ Seattle who said: “Germany is more progressive in addressing racism than the U.S. because Germany has paid out reparations.”
Really? Could you provide this link? Because digging a few pieces of expensive art work out of Swiss banks, that were stolen from Jewish homes before WWII, and donating these to Israel does not constitute “reparations”.
The fact is, any Jewish people who were still able to travel, left Germany for Israel or the United States after the war. They didn’t stick around long enough to find out what the Germans would do next. Why would they?
I know absolutely no social monetary mass programs or attempt by the Germans that could compensate 6 million Jews for the deaths of their family members. If you had to guess, Seattle, could you please explain the “cost” of losing one’s father? Just one man. What would be sufficient compensation?
Germany did not have enough money, and still doesn’t, to pay reparations to the broken lives of the Jews that still remained in Europe after the Holocaust. Remember, Hitler’s whole agenda was to exterminate “every single Jew” in Europe.
We also have a Black Caucus in Washington, DC. Is there a Jewish Caucus in Berlin? Please provide the link. If I had to guess, African Americans, as a cohesive group,along with the liberal white left, have much more power in the United States than the Jews now do in Germany.
I’m not commending America for how we have NOT, to my satisfaction, dealt with racism. I am simply saying that African Americans have chosen to stay in America and form a united front against racism. While in Germany, the Jews just left because they KNEW in their hearts there was no compromising with the German mind-set. And, once again, America is one of the few countries in which they felt safe.
Further regarding “compensations”, which program in Germany mandated hiring Jewish people along with blue-eyed blonde Aryans after the war? Was it the Bavarian Forest Affirmative Action Association? An update: there is no Bavarian Forest Affirmative Action Association. Links would be appreciated Seattle. Thank you for reading this. And have a safe and peaceful 2012.
http://www.jmberlin.de/main/EN/homepage-EN.php
Well Cordoba, I agree with Seattle, it’s not correct to say one form of racism is better than the other and we did this and that, but the Germans were worse.
The few jews that were left in Germany after WW II were more than welcome in the States and obviously Israel was founded. And believe it or not, there is still a jewish community in Germany.
You say African Americans decided to stay. Where were they supposed to go to? Did they get their own state? Was there a country that wanted them? And that’s not even important. It’s about respect, and not admitting that certain groups have other needs than the majority is just disrespectful
It seems to me the author has an unconscious desire or maybe conscious desire to date white men. Who cares if white men find black women attractive? Black women should focus on their relationships with their black male counterparts.
“Black women should focus on their relationships with their black male counterparts.” That’s a good idea, I think I’ll do that.
Sorry but your attitude is completely ridiculous. “Black women should focus on their relationships with their black male counterparts?????” …. totally absurd!!!!
First, I have nothing against interracial dating…who’s to say the one you fall in love with will be of your ethnic group; HOWEVER, there is absolutely nothing wrong about being attracted to one of your own…it just means you LOVE YOURSELF as well! But to the Black Women, do not sweat the Black Men who prefers those of a different group, it just simply means he has a more deeply rooted problem than you will ever be able to fix..NOT because he’s attracted to them, but MORESO because he doesn’t find himself attractive which sounds like a self-esteem issue! Just like other ethnic groups…he should have respect and love for self FIRST!
How can we when black men are more likely to date outside of their race than anybody else??!!!!
A woman can attract a man by doing certain things. The issue of whether or how frequently black men date outside of their race is irrelevant. There are plenty of black men who date black women. Focus on them!!!!
True. Most people prefer to date within their race. But there is diffidently a shortage of black men, particularly “marriageable” black men. Where are all these eligible black men coming from??
If black men can get it together to marry outside their race, why can’t they consider re-thinking their psychology and marry within their race?
There’s nothing a non-black woman has to offer that an African American woman doesn’t have. And this doesn’t have anything to do with white men keeping them from making a living. If they can afford conspicuous consumption (cars, jewelry, electronics and the cost of dating other women) they can afford to marry and take care of their children.
It’s just too burdensome I guess, to be strapped down to a wife and child. If this is the case,then we are all “burdened”, every race.
I was actually referring to the black prison population, which is 39.4% African American. That’s what I mean by the shortage of available black men. However, I do agree that African American men should reconsider a lot of their priorities. That’s not to say that there aren’t black men willing or able to take care of their families. I don’t believe that black men feel as though taking care of a family is “burdensome”. Especially taking into consideration that men have ALWAYS had the responsibility of taking care of their wives and families. In particularly, in many West African societies polygamy was very common. These black men had absolutely no problem with taking care of several wives and children. African Americans have always struggled with taking care of the family within a racist capitalist society. What defines a man in our society? Someone who can “afford” or can provide FINANCIALLY for their families. Based on a lot of my readings, African American women were often encouraged more to attend college to escape becoming a mammy (cook, housemaid, or nanny) to a white family where they were often physically, emotionally or sexually abused. Of course in our society education and especially a higher education is often associated with a higher income. Even without a higher income, it was always easy or easier for black women to find permanent work then black men. There is always room for service jobs. Our service jobs are often gendered and in a lot of cases racial as well. Take for instance cleaning ads on T.V., they ALWAYS advertise women, either a wife and/or mother. But when race and gender intersect, in this particular instance we are discussing black women, children and husbands are barely seen. The Pinesol Lady, Popeyes Chicken Lady, Honey Bunches of Oats Lady, Aunt Jemima. Our society loves the image of a black woman serving. So, if black men, who often times show resentment towards black women for being “too strong” or the “men” in the relationships believe in the Moynihan Report, which came up with the idea that black men are abandoning their families because black women are emasculating them, they may internalize the false idea that black women as emasculating.
Because black men’s masculinity, when compared to black women’s femininity, has been so misconstrued that they formed their own ideas of masculinity. Take into consideration the hiphop culture. Masculinity is expressed as having a lot of money, big cars, expensive jewelry, electronics and a lot of women. Being strapped down to a wife and child(ren) is a lifestyle that many black men cannot afford (because black women have jobs are higher forms of education and can “compete” with black men in the mainstreams idea of “masculinity”.
Commenting on your first sentence about black men “getting it together” to date outside of their race. According to a study that I read, black men who marry outside of their race tend to be “successful” meaning that they obtain jobs that offers enough financial stability to take care of a family. I hear black men who marry interracially constantly referring to black women’s attitudes and mannerisms.
For example, on the Real Housewives of Atlanta, a cast member, Sheree, was dating a (fake) doctor who was hosting a seminar, “How Black Women Can Get and Keep A Successful Black Man”. It amazed me that black women actually attended this seminar with NOTEPADs!! The doctor invites Sheree on stage to “teach” her mannerisms that successful black men supposedly prefer. He asked her something like, “If you’re out on a date and the man asks you if you would like him to open your ketchup bottle, hat do you say?” Sheree answer went something like, “No. Its okay I’ll open it for myself”. The doctor said that was the wrong answer and that she should let the man open the bottle.
Black women are often taught since childhood to never depend on anyone, though we often depend on our sisterhoods or each other. Apparently, the (fake) doctor suggests for black women to (pretend) to be more dependent on their men or in particular their “successful” black men.
Based upon the article, black men (like white men) may find black women quite unattractive as well? Are there studies as to this? I am a young white attorney from an educated liberal family. I am a registered democrat. I live ouside Wash D.C. My father and grandfather are doctors, my mother, has a masters degree and so on. I have some male black aquaintances. I dont feel racist, I am for equality of races, etc., I like blacks. However, I find most black women quite unattractive – unless they have caucasian features – but even then, not really.
Just find someone who makes you happy! Race shouldn’t be an issue. BUT if you do happen to have a relationship outside of your own, my advice to all would be, don’t change who you are as a person. I’ve dated outside my own race and have had good times…men are men. But I haven’t met anyone, black or white, that I would compromise who I am just to be with him. That demonstrates desparation, and that’s not attractive on anyone!
I read this in an Ebony Magazine article in reaction to the fact that Wesley Snipes now dates non-black women. Snipes feels more comfortable with non-black women because they aren’t, in a word, as stressed as black women. I wonder why. It’s because it’s stressful being black! Black women are up against the society they live in, plus the expectations (or at least illusion) of submissiveness that many men expect from female partners. Here’s the excerpt. I thought it was very revealing:
One of the main reasons that black women have often reacted with such knee-jerk resentment to black men dating outside their race is precisely because, too often, black men’s preference for non-black women is expressed in terms of such women possessing a “lightness” and “ease” that black women do not—a lightness that, to the extent it exists, comes at least in part from not having the same kind of struggles with our society that black men try to escape by pursuing non-black women, and, of course, from having a level of support as women from their men that black women have not enjoyed.
To be rejected not only because you bring the same involuntarily shouldered burdens to the relationship as the man, but also the additional burdens of his neglect, hostility and exploitation, has often been too much for black women to bear.
As Halima’s concept of racio-misogyny articulates, for some black men, sexism against black women is not merely a function of gender but also of race—resentment is derived as much from black women’s nappy hair, dark skin, broad features, “lack of femininity,” the way in which her blackness precludes her from being the trophy that Wesley Snipes describes (“the guys are like, `Oh man, you’ve got a great women.’ And the man says, `Yeah, I do. ”)–as it is from her being a woman.
His words here remind me of the scene in “Their Eyes Were Watching God” in which Tea Cake brags about the fair-skinned Janie’s susceptibility to bruising after a beating. Black equals strong, loud, unsusceptible to bruising–mule-like in toughness and resiliency.
As Wesley Snipes notes, a man wants to be proud of his woman: he wants someone pleasing, someone compromising, someone compassionate—to him. But as Snipes acknowledges in passing, black women, who must cope with many of the same stresses as black men, plus others that black men don’t experience, may also want these some qualities in a mate. And while black women are constantly discouraged from being too black, too loud, too angry and too tough, these qualities are considered the sine qua non of black manhood in our society. When a black woman finds a man who is comfortable in his manhood without the barrier of this armor, is she expected not to find the experience as appealing as all the black men who have lauded the comparative “softness” of non-black women?
Cath said: “Do you really think Germany would have such a bad reputation if they had killed black people or any people of color rather than Jews? Do you think anyone would punish them they way they are being punished if they had attacked an African country and not France and the UK and pretty much every other EU country?”
No, I don’t think Germany would have been vilified as much if they had, especially, killed people from Africa. Black people seem to have historically gotten the worst of the racism All Across the Planet. This is very true. In the former Belgian Congo, the king of Belgium inflicted terrible atrocities on the Africans to extract rubber from the rain forests, and there’s a museum in Belgium today (saw it on Youtube) that very much minimizes this cruelty!
Also, regarding the Holocaust Museum in DC, yes you are correct.It’s in a much nicer area than the African American History Museum.
But I do take issue with Seattle telling you America glorifies slavery? Is this why we tell children story after story about Harriet Tubman and the Underground Railroad, have an entire month devoted to Black History, Rosa Parks, the Civil Rights Movement, Brown vs Board of Education etc?
Nobody but an extremist would claim that we did not commit genocide. So, please don’t think America is (proud?) of how white settlers treated African Americans. I think most Americans feel very guilty and totally support more American history from a Black and Native American perspective.
I also think America, thanks to education, has realized the realities of the atrocities we commited against approximately 2 million Native Americans in the “New World”, who were welcoming to white settlers before whites started just claiming the land of indigenous people for themselves.
Also, in regard to where are African Americans supposed to live, I meant Jewish people felt safe in America after the war.
But, yes, you are totally correct in that the entire planet seems to, and this is painful for me to say because it’s so tragic, have a bias against people with black skin. Even today, Africa is generally ignored by the media compared to the coverage it gives other countries. I noticed this a long time ago.
There was some flood in Africa (must have been 30 years ago) and about 5,000 people were killed. It was on the 4th page of the newspaper! What is more telling than this? I actually brought this newspaper to school to show my journalism teacher.
Can you even imagine the world-wide coverage if 5,000 people of European descent died? There would be memorial after memorial. Every facet of the tragedy would be analyzed again and again. The relatives of the victims interviewed endlessly. Books published from “various perspectives” of the horrific event. So yes, I know what you’re saying.
Africa is not given the dignity an entire continent deserves. I mean, we are talking An Entire Continent here.
I saw the movie The Constant Gardner and it was very revealing about the white attitude toward Africa. The main character, Ralph Fienne tries to help a little black girl into a helicopter. But the pilot says, “Leave her alone. That’s just the way things are in Africa. You can’t save them all.” It’s like the planet just “accepts” that’s the way things are? An African Holocaust happens every day. EVERY DAY, and we are afraid to look.
Again, enjoy the new year! Thank you for responding Cath. Please keep commenting. Your articles are very informative.
Imfort stated: What defines a man in our society? Someone who can “afford” or can provide FINANCIALLY for their families.
Then Imfort states further in the post:”Because black men’s masculinity, when compared to black women’s femininity, has been so misconstrued that they formed their own ideas of masculinity. Take into consideration the hiphop culture. Masculinity is expressed as having a lot of money, big cars, expensive jewelry, electronics and a lot of women. Being strapped down to a wife and child(ren) is a lifestyle that many black men cannot afford.”
Well, which is it? I do NOT understand how a black man, who has consciously decided to interpret masculinity as having material possessions and sexy women cannot “afford” to take care of his girlfriend and children. I do understand that black men have had their masculinity stripped from them by whites. I do understand that for some relief and psychological salvation black men have had to form their own idealogy of what it means to be a man.
However, I still don’t beleive that even high school drop-outs don’t have choices. If a black man can afford cospicuous consumption (cars, jewelry, women) are you saying in the same breath, “Oh, but they can’t afford to take care of a family though.” That doesn’t make sense.
And it is part of the reason (not all by any means) that poor black men STAY within the poverty/crime/ absentee father pipeline. Your choices are your destiny. You always have SOME choices. Taking into account racism, poor black men STILL have choices. They can look and observe the suffering of their fatherless children and single former girlfriends, can they not?
Here’s the crux of the situation: if they are astute and sensitive enough to feel racism, then are you saying they are NOT astute and sensitive enough to witness the suffering of their own family? It just doesn’t add up. It’s an excuse, pure and simple. It’s a free pass to No Responsibility-Vill.
How many middle class BLACK and WHITE men don’t have fantasies about shucking the whole mortgage payments, family car payments, medical insurance and on and on to just say,”The Hell! I’m gonna get a sex machine woman, buy a caddie and wear $800 outfits and just have fun! Yeah!”
Nobody is buying this. Not black middle class men, certainly not the white liberal left who really does care about racism and giving black people an even playing field. It just doesn’t look right! No amount of psychological or sociological “studies” or academic jargon or convoluted, “but there’s a reason for all this” can delete from America’s mind the image of a black man dressed like a rock star with a woman wearing a Size DD bra, who when asked about his family says,”Who?”
In summation, if men can get away with having sex without taking any responsibility for the outcome they will, any man!But to be a responsible, future-thinking person means putting aside selfish needs and valuing the beauty of having a family who loves you, over being the king pin at the local hip hop club while you “the man”.
This being “the man” meme is temporary at best. Plus, where is all this money coming from? High school drop out, no job skills, but $3,000 watches? I wonder if it’s selling drugs. Yeah, it’s selling drugs,,, which equals the infamous pipeline. In 5 years, “the man” will be in the state pen. So it’s a childlike fantasy that leads nowhere. It is not a solution to racism, nor will it aid blacks in working hand in hand with the liberal white left.
Social programs paid for by the STATE to give poor black adolescents an opportunity to see there is another Alternative to simulating wealthy rap stars with gold chains meme are needed.This is not an appropriate role model.
Better schools in poor black neighborhoods. Social workers. Community centers. Big Brother programs. Affirmative Action (bring it back!). That would break the pipeline. And it’s killing our society if this pipeline remains intact.
Also, many whites DO have women (as if women are commodities??), expensive clothes, cars and other things. They just know to hide it and can afford that lifestyle private while keeping their home lifestyle public. The hip hop culture is all about being bold and in your face. They just make what rich whites (or just the rich) make private public. Ask Tiger Woods.
Tiger Woods is one more example of a black man marrying a white “trophy wife” once he reached the 20-Million-Club.Plus, I don’t think it’s right that he does not identify himself as African American. His father is African American and his mother is Asian. He should be proud to be of African descent.
This all relates to my support of Pan-Africanism which incorporates pride in being of African descent and visualizing all descendents PLUS people now living in Africa as one and the same: a separate country living in different parts of the world. Africans very much need to band together and form a united front to the rest of the world’s racism because black Africans have been the recipients of more bias and racism than any other ethnic group historically, as far as I’ve read.
I am not suggesting that African Americans “conform” to some white idealogy of what it means to be a man.I don’t think the “white way” is the only way. That’s a narrow-minded uneducated way to view the world. That is not my ultimate intent.Why my comments are interpreted like this is puzzling to me. Plus, supporting your family and community is a pretty universal mode of living. It’s certainly not limited to white Europeans, is it? I mean, this is nothing new from Hong Kong to Cambodia to New Zealand to Brazil.
My intention was to suggest that the black community think of themselves (and support their relatives) as one unit, separate from whites in a potentially dangerous hostile environment. If they don’t support each other(and men abandoning their families is one stark example for whatever reason) and take responsibility for each other, they are divided in more ways than one. And this is not a good thing when you are an oppressed race. The Jewish people when they immigrated to America bonded together as one. They supported each others’ businesses, schools, social groups. Safety in unity. This philosophy also worked for the Asian community and many other ethnic groups actually. I realize EVERYTHING is harder for African Americans because of the virulent racism they’ve been subjected to and still are, but it’s a good tactic. Worked for other groups, why can’t it work for Africans.
It’s well-known that most black crime is committed against other blacks. Why? This is not a good think. Support your community and you will see some positive changes fairly quickly. Strength in numbers. I don’t see how anybody can argue with that.
My goodness. This is one of the reasons why chatting with someone, or attempting a conversation with someone on the internet is difficult. I feel as though what I am trying to say is not how you’re reading it. And may be its vise versa. Anyway, OBVIOUSLY I am aware that Tiger Woods, a black looking biracial man, has (or had?) a white trophy wife. I was giving an example of how the rich, who supposedly take care of their families (from your first reply) can also neglect the family in other ways than financially and still have the women, expensive clothes and all the other materialistic things that hip hop culture exploits as “masculinity”.
Personally, from what I’ve read about Tiger Woods and a couple of his interviews, he claims and acknowledges ALL of his “racial make-up”. From my own interactions with bi-racials, particularly being black and white or black and another race, many bi-racials claim both of their races because it would be disrespectful to not acknowledge another part of themselves. I don’t think Tiger is wrong for acknowledging his racial make-up. But why HE is doing it. . .I dunno
I am extremely PRO-BLACK as well, meaning that I support Pan Africanism. I also agree that African Americans, and other Africans and African descendants should come together and take care of one another businesses, create schools that WE run where the curriculum isn’t based off of a Eurocentric pedagogy and so on and so forth.
I never suggested that you thought the “white way” is the only or right way. Obviously, supporting your family is a universal. What made you think that I excluded African American men from this responsibility??
I’ve re-read your original comment and no where did it suggest that you supported Pan-Africanism. It was more of a “well is black men can afford to do these things then they should be able to afford to do this” type of argument which, as I’ve stated earlier, was taken completely out of context. I was discussing the African American male/female relationship and the “battle of the sexes” kind of thing that goes on within the black community. I originally commented stating that there weren’t a lot of marriageable black men for black women to marry (referring to the black male population in prison and the extreme high school drop out rate of African American males). You commented on black men “getting it together” to date interracial and suggesting that they can do the same to marry within their race instead of buying expensive cars, clothes, e.t.c. I then go into discussing how hip hop culture could help influence another ideology of masculinity, refocusing priorities to consumerism, hyper-masculinity and womanizing.
Here, I wasn’t disagreeing AT ALL with you. But I was trying to describe a possible reason why black men may or may SEEM to put materialism as a priority instead of the family. I was describing that this is a type of manhood or “masculinity” that is easier to achieve, or APPEAR to achieve.
Then you go in to suggestions that I agree with, mentoring programs, Affirmative Action and so on.
I think we agree on the Pan Africanism. Sometimes it can be a little difficult online to fully explain yourself. I think we’re both debating but we’re debating agreeing on the same issue.
Firstly, I agree that there should be better schools in poor black neighborhoods, more community centers, mentor programs, e.t.c to guide African Americans to make the right decision as far as life choices go.
Secondly, my explanation of the materialistic hip hop culture and black men’s responsibility was not meant to say that all black men can afford these fancy cars, the women, outfits and so on. But to describe how black men may reject mainstream “image” of what a “real man” is supposed to be because socially and economically, they are unable to fit that standard. That is not to say that black men ignore or reject their families. That is not to say that all black men who drop out of high school and gain some type of financial security are drug dealers. Black men are constantly looking for ways to provide. Again, I lean towards hip hop. Many of these songs reflect committing illegal crimes or “hustling” to provide for their families in a racist system that targets them and often times sets them up for failure.
Ultimately, you COMPLETELY took and used my words out of context. I was trying to explain to you the imbalance of mainstream ideals and standards masculinity and femininity in the African American community and its affects.
[...] piece from Racist Review (a social science disciplined blog), defines it as “the phenomenon of black women’s [...]
[...] Women in business, WSJ Black women and exclusion by white men [...]
The political correctness in this article is pathetic. Yeah I guess its just good old “Racist Ignorance” right? I’m sure it has nothing to do with the ill temper, loud mouth, rolls of fat, lack of proper English, litter of children, fake hair, extremely high rate of aids (over 20x more likely than white women) and unreasonable sense of entitlement that so many of them share. (rolls eyes)…. Give me a break.
Africans have over fifty countries. Africans have half of the worlds resources. Africans have the largest population that the world has ever seen. Africa has the greatest farmland the world has ever known, you can grow three crops a year there. Africans live in my races countries as a minority, while my race is a minority. There is not much more I can do for them except make one president.
Now here is the difficulty posting as a white male conservative to an obviously left wing political blog. You can’t take data then assume the data comes to the conclusion you wish to interpret it as. Most of the hold up on white men/black woman I feel is the black woman’s loyalty to the black family unit. I think it has little to do with the white man’s hostility towards black woman. Although my first wife was a black woman over 25 years ago I find most black women want nothing to do with a white male. In fact most black woman are in competition with white females for the black males affections. Just last night I went out with a white female who expressed to me that she would go out with a black man and expressed why; she said the black man is more considerate towards women. That many prospective white male dates come off to forward when courting her for dates. Their language was completely out of line. Being a outsider to their dating experience who was I to doubt their conclusions? White men certainly are more direct in fact so more like a bull in a china shop. I feel though both males the white and the black are doing the same thing its just one is being more covert about their approach. I’ve also seen white woman on dating sites who yes prefer the black male go through a litany of requirements for the new black male prospect, usually they will start asking that white males don’t fill their mail box with hate mail for their taste in men. Then they will read the riot act to new black male seekers rattling off the same sterotypes many white men have towards black men. Does he have a job, is he on assistance, how many kids, etc. etc. etc. Basically they desire the player they want the man to be more “romantic” and “creative” with the female. I think many woman are discounting the physical aspects of their desire. Unfortunately most black women I feel just don’t get the hint or catch on to my desire for them. They are not as open to its feasibility, they are still smarting from the loss of some black males to white women. Most importantly what this story and all liberal based race stories leave out, they are racist themselves. It seems this prospective is never engaged, its almost as if black people in America can’t be racist. People many are and to the level of many whites. Eventually when the black female finally comes to the realization of the advantages of dating white men it won’t happen. White men have been marrying women of different races for decades asians, hispanics etc. The hold out the whole time has been black females. Its time they think of their future and not the black families future, its time they realize were all about to become a race of the past as mixed will become the new race.
Bambino, I agree. Black women are extremely loyal to black men and rarely get the same in return. There are alot of racist views among black women when it comes to white men. They refuse to even consider it. Its a shame because alot of us will end up alone because of being close minded. I say look for someone who makes you happy because love see’s no color!!!
Hey Bambino! Golly. I didn’t realize that it was high time black women stopped being so silly as to actually consider their FAMILY’s future over and above simply having fun with “White Studs”. Are you serious? Too Funny!
Why shouldn’t black women be defensive? I’m white by the way, and don’t even consider myself a left winger. I’m more of a moderate really.
But since when did you good ole boys stop making jokes about brown sugar? I mean, you finished doin’ that yet? Really? You stopped? Because I didn’t get that memo Bambino.
Here I was, silly me, just thought you white “data collecting guys” were just in it for the sex! How stupid of me! Well, now that you’ve explained it all to me, that “white men have been dating Asians and Hispanics for decades” (that long, really?)I guess I’ll just have to defer to you next time I have a question about inter-racial dating.
If I may so, because I’m going to say so, Mr. B, your comment was the most inane thing I’ve ever read on this blog. I especially like the supreme logic of “eventually when the black female finally comes to the realization of the advantages of dating white men it won’t happen”. HUH? Why won’t it happen? You guys intending to colonize Mars in the near future? Like the clock is ticking on the time you have left on Earth, so black women can experience the sheer joy of dating you? That doesn’t make any sense! Why is there a time limit at all?
Sigh. Please try an entirely new experience for yourself, Bambino. Let’s attempt writing comments when we have our thinking caps on (as your Kindergarten teacher always recommended!) Because, you just don’t strike me as very bright. Leftie or Rightie. But thanks for the entertainment value! The thorough lack of logic was hilarious!
LOL! And I thought this site was only “R” rated!
I think my question would have to be for whoever conducted this interviews ,( I guess 2 only). Or wrote this report or statistics. I’m assuming is Brittany. Are you a black woman? How many white men did you interview? Because it seems to me that No. 1 the “men” being interviewd are racists anyway and No. 2 I believe that the statistics are quite wrong! I have many friends and family (sister, cousins) who are biracial and black women who date and marry or have romantic relationships with ONLY white men. I go out everyday to work in the city and I see, at least 1 couple who are black woman/white man. So to say that white men are hostile to black women it’s a bit of an exageration.
How amazed I am at this conversation. I have read many stats and opinions about black women/white men vs. society’s view. First, let me help all to get a firm understanding of why I think the way I do. I am a 25 year old black female. My parents raised me to not be impartial to any persons. I never felt the effects of racism until I entered into Chicago’s corporate atmosphere. Before than, I have always loved the idea of interracial relationships, no matter how it was blended.
Here is where the problem lies. Our history has been altered, and sometimes simply not acknowledged. We are still coming to terms with our african american roots in many aspects. On the other hand the things we have learned, we have not learned from, for example black society glorifying the N word, or showing how they lack respect for black woman i.e. Chris Brown. Then, we as a race demand respect from all other ethnic counterparts. Does that really make sense?
Black and white racism and bigotry is in the world, obviously, but who is really trying to stop the ignorance? I have read all the previous opinions and for the ones mentioning how loud, fat, and BLACK, black women are, how many black woman you know that are educated and well put together? For you black men, how many have dated women who were, women of worth and didn’t matter what race they were?
I have to agree that black women are not treated well by men in general whether white, black, or any other ethnicity. Unfortunately, alot of black women don’t carry themselves as ladies, but once again expect to be treated as one. What really gets to me is this, granted there is a shortage of respect all around, when a man (white or black) comes across a good, respectful, smart, classy woman they don’t focus their efforts and attention on embracing that black woman. For the black man, there is a sense of jealousy on their manhood, instead of just being proud of her. For the white man, whether it is in the forefront or not they feel she needs to be put in her “black place”.
The statistics and numbers are true. Black women are the under dogs. We have the highest rates in single mother homes. We were made into sex objects and maids for most of our history. Now we are in a point in time where we are degrading ourselves and being degraded by others. I myself was once married to a white man, and he abandoned me pregnant. His final words to me was I was meant to be a single mother. I also, found myself in relationships with silent bigots and realized I was never going to be equal to there real white family members. When it came to black men, well I was viewed as a traitor and a white man’s whore.
If I recall, when I was younger I was harassed more by blacks for speaking “white” and naturally having long hair. As I got older I realized other races wanted me to be a typical oversexed black female. I would love to one day raise my biracial children in a world that it doesn’t matter what color they mother is, we are just loving proud family.
[...] dating is shaped not only by the desire to find love (for the moment or something more lasting) by race and racism. For example, this research on heterosexual dating and this research on same-sex dating indicates [...]