Well, it appears that most any U.S. problem is worse than racism. (H/T: ColorLines) I have heard many discussions of whether sexism or classism is worse that racism, but this seems to set a new low standard for inanity in such comparisons. At the Denver Post, Kirk Mitchell reports this story, “Abortion foes using racism to make point at DNC,” which is about planned protests at the Denver Democratic party convention next week:
Operation Rescue leaders vowed today to pass out hundreds of thousands of racist pamphlets and to stage sit-ins. . . . Handing out the pamphlets is the group’s way of spotlighting a greater evil than racism, [Randall] Terry said. “The flier is meant of offend. Do you think racism is abhorrent?” Terry asked at a news conference. . . . He said child killing is much worse. Anyone who votes for Sen. Barack Obama supports the killing of babies…. “Which is a worse crime: slavery or murder? The correct answer: murder. A slave can get free, but a murder victim cannot get ‘undead.’ “
What do you make of this kind of political and moral logic? Please add your comments below to this open thread.
Racism kills…weren’t there massive lynching, etc., that took place over the last couple of centuries that cannot be undone? And all the other murders and unjust deaths due to deliberate neglect, etc., that is directly related to institutional and systemic racism that cannot be undone? (still occurring this very day?) They’re not the sharpest tools in the shed…. (being all too polite and repressing my obnoxious vulgarity here with these folks…)
Excellent Joe. Because, even though I am Black, and “supposedly” socially liberal, I personally have issues with t abortions, and amount of abortions Black women have undergone since Roe v. Wade. Per year Black women undergo almost as many abortion as live births. (Only Russian women from what i have read recently, have reverse ratios, as such, which some are arguring is, in part, responsible for the Russian push to the “near abroad” to capture some of the demographically situated Russian citizens/ethnics, with their higher birth rates etcs. That is, demographic replenishing its self. Sorry I digressed.)
To move the discussion on ward, There data that reflect that Black Americans are to a significant degree, socially conservative, with one caveat, except for voting republican as you have noted in earlier post.
Yet in the matter of abortion, most Black Americans feel it is only morally “right” for rape, incest, and to save the life of the mother. Just reviewed NYC’s abortion data, and local health officials are concerned because there are like 93 abortions per 100 births. As such, they feel that some women are using abortions as a method of contraception. This is just not right. Especially, when there is all manner of non-aborting contraction available.
Bit people like RT are, basically, murderers themselves when thy advocate killing abortion providers. As we say down south, “two wrongs don’t make it right!
I, further, do not think both, abortions and slavery as experienced by Blacks in the “west” are moral equivalents.
In regards to Conservatism. For perspective, there is a major difference between Black Conservative ala Thomas Sowell and folks of his political ilk, and conservative Blacks which represents the general Black American population’s social values.
Yes, Seattle, slavery killed millions, and shortened the lives of many more. Crazy analysis, his. GDAWG, good point, Black Americans are liberals or pragmatic conservatives, most seeing people as people in these issues. The Rescue folks cannot see that point, but their ideology overwhelms, it appears.
But abortions do need to be reduced, but by sensible and practical ways, such as sharply increasing access to birth control and morning after pills, in my view. And monetary and medical support centers for women who cannot afford to have children. Democrats should hammer on these practical solutions to reduction.
I appreciate both points~but I consider myself independant on the issue from both the right and left–I have serious issues with both sides and am pleased with Obama’s stance, even though it is not as solid as I’d like, at least yet. Though he seems to be right about in the approximate range so far as I can tell.
I agree with the point of increasing access to birth control and morning after pills…if it is done with practitioners who have the best interest of their patients and not using them as lab rats so the white and other privilged folks who have private health care and good insurance can be safe in terms of both practice and advice, etc. in the future after all the experimentation is complete….
I am pro choice, meaning just that–if a woman finds she is pregnant regardless of her circumstances and wishes to keep the baby, she should be able to do so–meaning it should not only be the economically privileged who should have access to this type of “pro choice” I am talking about. And she should not be pressured into abortion because her economic circumstances, and especially when race and/or ethnicity is a factor. The quality of care isn’t the same anyway between the clinics and private practitioners. Though, I definitely agree that prevention is the best method for sure for those who do not wish for, or are not ready for children, and thankfully now the morning after pill, which is not the same as abortion as those folks above try to assert. But at the same time, I do believe if a woman does seek out abortion for what ever reason, she should not be condemned–and why she does shouldn’t be anybody’s business but her own. Though do believe there should be limits as to how late in the pregnancy she can obtain it–my own thoughts are no later than the 12th week…unless there are other circumstances, etc.
I am frustrated with the recent dilemma that charged Obama as supporting essentially infanticide. I don’t think anybody, except those on the left I am extremely critical of, would be in favor of aborting a fetus that can even survive with the help of life support. Both sides want to push their views on everybody, when all situations and circumstances are different. I am thinking of a case that occurred just a few years back–just one of so many. A female in Seattle who was 17 years old was still living with her mother and mother’s boyfriend at the time–all white. Her own boyfriend, whom she is still with today, is black. She got pregnant and got an abortion, why? Because she was not only afraid of the consaquences her baby would have to endure with relation to racism while dependant in the home, but her own physical and psychological well being if the parents found out she was pregnant. Yes, she did get an abortion without her parents knowing a thing and lives with that guilt everyday of having the abortion and the anger of living in a very racist family–in a way, even her own “choice” was removed due to racism alone, as to whether or not she could or “should” keep her baby. It was a complex decision she had to make in a very short period of time. Then, there’s the father–if you can only imagine further, how he had absolutely no choice in the matter at all, compounded by possible shared feelings of guilt and certainly anger with relation to the racism, etc. influencing that decision and denying even the possibility to take part in the decision to other otherwise, supposing he and his family would have wished for her to carry through, etc. That is just one situation alone, granted with a bi-racial couple and a white mother. However, the issue is too complex for only one side or the other to morally and/or ethically reign over in my opinion.
It’s not surprising they’re going to be in Denver though…they need to start forking over some serious resources if they wish for abortion to be abolished…including resources available for women who would have them done in alleys, etc. and suffer serious health consaquences afterwards. All people need access to equal healthcare, not some “private” and others “clinics”, with physicians who have their best interest, and so on, in my opinion….
It is just a lame excuse to try to “legitimate” their own racism and racist adgenda, etc.
Joe. Absolutely. Correct on all of the point you make. I agree wholeheartedly. But I’d like to move the issue even further. I suspect socio-economic reasons, largely, explains the disproportionate elective abortion rates in the Black community. That is, marginal economic circumstances. I suppose similar socio-economic circumstances exist in Russia concerning the women there, which leads to the abortion numbers we see. But, interestingly, for the married Black women, they tend to have more abortions than non-married Black women. Really confusing to an extent. One would expect these women, married Black women, to have better access to contraception and favorable economic circumstances to support more than one child, if any. I dunno?
More important points made.
But~I just have to throw one out to democrats and the convention…well, and to the other side and their supporters–including those who will be at the convention…and in line with the earlier request of more side show distractions that was made a while ago…. And while people are busy correctly being crtical of both Obama and Biden, the job for many of us is to get the vote out and brace for all the mudslinging, etc. from all sides. So, with all that said and appropriately within the Democratic spirit of my own home place, Obama Biden `08: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xMzGmXX1PM
gop~prepare to be rocked! Go Dems!!!
Okay…well, if anybody is up for more discussions on politics y’all should check out the youtube discussions under the Obama Biden clips~there is an interesting fellow on there who is there to get the Democrats squared away, haha, his (or her? probably his) name is “GospelPete”~this one has caught my eye in a few different discussions…you may have to go back a page or two in them, but heh, anybody interested can talk to “GospelPete” and others…sigh….
I want to clarify earlier statements so as not to mis-lead.
I meant to say earlier that married Black women are more likely to have an abortion than married white women, but unmarried Black women are less likely to have an abortion than unmarried white women.
The most recent NY state/ city health department data from 2004 noted that in NYC 93% of abortions are performed on NYC residents, and there are 73 abortions for every 100 lives births.
Abortions for Black women 49/1000;
white women 13/1000.
So to Joe’s point and BO’s as well, we do need to find some kind of way reduce the number of elective abortions. But I would love to know why Black have so many. They, Black women, are 17% of the population but have 36% of the abortions. Or, to look at it another way, for every two pregnancies in Black women one ends in an elective abortion. For white women the number is 1 in 7 pregnancies end an elective abortion.