Comments on: White Women Who Don’t Get Racism http://www.racismreview.com/blog/2008/07/22/white-women-who-dont-get-racism/ Thu, 18 Mar 2010 03:16:20 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: No1KState http://www.racismreview.com/blog/2008/07/22/white-women-who-dont-get-racism/comment-page-1/#comment-12248 No1KState Tue, 29 Dec 2009 17:33:52 +0000 http://www.racismreview.com/blog/?p=418#comment-12248 Also, oppression olymipics obscures the issue, which is that some type of discrimination, sometimes multiple types, face a very significant part of the population. As you mentioned, not less than half the population faces some type of discrimination. Also, oppression olymipics obscures the issue, which is that some type of discrimination, sometimes multiple types, face a very significant part of the population. As you mentioned, not less than half the population faces some type of discrimination.

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]]> By: No1KState http://www.racismreview.com/blog/2008/07/22/white-women-who-dont-get-racism/comment-page-1/#comment-12246 No1KState Tue, 29 Dec 2009 17:10:16 +0000 http://www.racismreview.com/blog/?p=418#comment-12246 The point I was trying to make, however inarticulately, is that for the Clintons and Courics, their skewed frame of reference is no excuse for thinking that sexism is worse than racism. I get your point about proportionality; my point was that for white women in Congress an "eyeball test" shows they're not in a worse position than people of color. If you look at just the Senate, which may be more useful in way of making an analogy, white women have it better. The analogy follows this line - in the workplace and academics, black Americans face race and gender demographics that look more like the demographics of their particular state at large, which is how senators are elected in the US, as opposed to the smaller districts by which representatives are elected. These districts are not only numerically smaller, they're also gerrymandered to meet certain political needs, sometimes race and sometimes political party. Any one senator has more power than any one representative. So the fact that overall, blacks have better representation in Congress says more about sexism in white America than racism in the country at large. Again, I get your point about proportionality; but it's sort of besides the point I was initially trying to make. As for the red flag - It's my opinion that if a white woman starts making waves about being passed over for a job, she will be more readily believed by the nation at large than any black person. So, I don't just mean if some white woman or some black person gets passed over; I mean if they're passed over and their situation gets some attention. I'm not sure how familiar you are with US Supreme Court cases and public discussion here; but in Lilly Ledbetter's case, everyone agreed she was discriminated against. People who're essentially okay with pay discrimination argued her timing was late; they didn't argue against the system. To the contrary, in the case of the New Haven firefighters, even the union sided with the white firefighters and some argue its bylaws demand the union stayed neutral. Outside of academians, activists, and the 4 liberal justices, most of mainstream America didn't even think about the ways in which the nature of the beast favored the white firefighters and New Haven was just in nullifying the test scores. If you heard about the black Harvard professor who was arrested in his home, again, most of the talk in mainstream America sided with the white arresting officer. So, quite honestly, I do think racism is a bigger hinderance to black men than sexism is to white women; and of course, we black women get the double whammy. For example, if you take a look at income, even holding for education and experience, both white men and white women earn more than black men and black women. That said, I would agree that playing oppression Olympics is unhelpful in the larger construct. Injustice anywhere is injustice everywhere and none are free until we're all free. So, I hope now that my initial arguments are at least clearer even if you still disagree. I was thinking of some caveats I maybe should've outlined from the outset. The point I was trying to make, however inarticulately, is that for the Clintons and Courics, their skewed frame of reference is no excuse for thinking that sexism is worse than racism. I get your point about proportionality; my point was that for white women in Congress an “eyeball test” shows they’re not in a worse position than people of color. If you look at just the Senate, which may be more useful in way of making an analogy, white women have it better.

The analogy follows this line – in the workplace and academics, black Americans face race and gender demographics that look more like the demographics of their particular state at large, which is how senators are elected in the US, as opposed to the smaller districts by which representatives are elected. These districts are not only numerically smaller, they’re also gerrymandered to meet certain political needs, sometimes race and sometimes political party. Any one senator has more power than any one representative. So the fact that overall, blacks have better representation in Congress says more about sexism in white America than racism in the country at large. Again, I get your point about proportionality; but it’s sort of besides the point I was initially trying to make.

As for the red flag – It’s my opinion that if a white woman starts making waves about being passed over for a job, she will be more readily believed by the nation at large than any black person. So, I don’t just mean if some white woman or some black person gets passed over; I mean if they’re passed over and their situation gets some attention. I’m not sure how familiar you are with US Supreme Court cases and public discussion here; but in Lilly Ledbetter’s case, everyone agreed she was discriminated against. People who’re essentially okay with pay discrimination argued her timing was late; they didn’t argue against the system. To the contrary, in the case of the New Haven firefighters, even the union sided with the white firefighters and some argue its bylaws demand the union stayed neutral. Outside of academians, activists, and the 4 liberal justices, most of mainstream America didn’t even think about the ways in which the nature of the beast favored the white firefighters and New Haven was just in nullifying the test scores. If you heard about the black Harvard professor who was arrested in his home, again, most of the talk in mainstream America sided with the white arresting officer.

So, quite honestly, I do think racism is a bigger hinderance to black men than sexism is to white women; and of course, we black women get the double whammy. For example, if you take a look at income, even holding for education and experience, both white men and white women earn more than black men and black women.

That said, I would agree that playing oppression Olympics is unhelpful in the larger construct. Injustice anywhere is injustice everywhere and none are free until we’re all free.

So, I hope now that my initial arguments are at least clearer even if you still disagree. I was thinking of some caveats I maybe should’ve outlined from the outset.

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]]> By: module-d http://www.racismreview.com/blog/2008/07/22/white-women-who-dont-get-racism/comment-page-1/#comment-12244 module-d Tue, 29 Dec 2009 10:49:48 +0000 http://www.racismreview.com/blog/?p=418#comment-12244 To reply to something in response to somebody else, it makes sense but I don't agree with it. Of course there are more white women in Congress than black men, there are more white women in the US, period. Perhaps I'm missing something. I'm from Europe, not the US, but the House of Representatives has 9% African Americans as opposed to 12% of the population. It also has only 16% women as opposed to 50% of the population. So it certainly seems that statistically speaking African Americans are far better proportionally represented in the House of Representatives than women are. In fact, black women specifically are better proportionally represented than white women are. But don't get me wrong, I'm not for a minute suggesting that sexism is worse than racism (or that white women face more discrimination than black women. Culturally, as an outsider looking in on the US it seems black women genuinely have the toughest time of all), surely it isn't useful to try and quantify the impact of certain types of social discrimination. I would absolutely reject the idea that somehow, as you seem to be suggesting, racism is 'worse' than sexism. It certainly effects different people in different ways, and to contradict you, white females often do not get promotions in favour of their male colleagues, and it is a ridiculous suggestion that when this occours a "red flag" goes up. On the contrary, I imagine it almost always goes completely unnoticed. Where have you got the idea that's it is otherwise? To reply to something in response to somebody else, it makes sense but I don’t agree with it. Of course there are more white women in Congress than black men, there are more white women in the US, period. Perhaps I’m missing something. I’m from Europe, not the US, but the House of Representatives has 9% African Americans as opposed to 12% of the population. It also has only 16% women as opposed to 50% of the population. So it certainly seems that statistically speaking African Americans are far better proportionally represented in the House of Representatives than women are. In fact, black women specifically are better proportionally represented than white women are.
But don’t get me wrong, I’m not for a minute suggesting that sexism is worse than racism (or that white women face more discrimination than black women. Culturally, as an outsider looking in on the US it seems black women genuinely have the toughest time of all), surely it isn’t useful to try and quantify the impact of certain types of social discrimination. I would absolutely reject the idea that somehow, as you seem to be suggesting, racism is ‘worse’ than sexism. It certainly effects different people in different ways, and to contradict you, white females often do not get promotions in favour of their male colleagues, and it is a ridiculous suggestion that when this occours a “red flag” goes up. On the contrary, I imagine it almost always goes completely unnoticed. Where have you got the idea that’s it is otherwise?

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]]> By: Chelsea L. http://www.racismreview.com/blog/2008/07/22/white-women-who-dont-get-racism/comment-page-1/#comment-7194 Chelsea L. Tue, 21 Apr 2009 22:02:14 +0000 http://www.racismreview.com/blog/?p=418#comment-7194 I don't think that Katie Couric has a right to say that sexism in the American society is more common than racisim. I'm currently taking a Race and Ethnic Relations class and it is very diverse. The other day an African American woman raised her hand when we were talking about how people still feel racism. She asked the class, "how many of you wake up every morning and consider yourself a colored person and dread the stereotypes your going to hear all day?" Many people don't realize that just because our country has come a long way since slavery and everything that people still hear and feel those stereotypes that we are trying so hard to get rid of. When it comes to sexism that is a whole different story. Many woman don't get the opportunities in the workforce as men because they aren't as strong or people feel they won't be able to contribute as much. Our society puts this idea that the man is the one with power and the woman should be the stay at home wife cooking and cleaning. Growing up and seeing shows such as Leave it to Beaver or I Love Lucy those are the stereotypes that children grow up learning. Statistics even show that woman may have the same job as a male but will be paid less for it. Why should a woman get less money than a male when they are working just as hard or harder at the same job? Both sexism and racism are an ongoing struggle in everyday life but in no way should anyone try to compare the two because they don't relate to each other. I don’t think that Katie Couric has a right to say that sexism in the American society is more common than racisim. I’m currently taking a Race and Ethnic Relations class and it is very diverse. The other day an African American woman raised her hand when we were talking about how people still feel racism. She asked the class, “how many of you wake up every morning and consider yourself a colored person and dread the stereotypes your going to hear all day?” Many people don’t realize that just because our country has come a long way since slavery and everything that people still hear and feel those stereotypes that we are trying so hard to get rid of. When it comes to sexism that is a whole different story. Many woman don’t get the opportunities in the workforce as men because they aren’t as strong or people feel they won’t be able to contribute as much. Our society puts this idea that the man is the one with power and the woman should be the stay at home wife cooking and cleaning. Growing up and seeing shows such as Leave it to Beaver or I Love Lucy those are the stereotypes that children grow up learning. Statistics even show that woman may have the same job as a male but will be paid less for it. Why should a woman get less money than a male when they are working just as hard or harder at the same job? Both sexism and racism are an ongoing struggle in everyday life but in no way should anyone try to compare the two because they don’t relate to each other.

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]]> By: The Color Line » Sarah Palin and White Women’s Racism http://www.racismreview.com/blog/2008/07/22/white-women-who-dont-get-racism/comment-page-1/#comment-6024 The Color Line » Sarah Palin and White Women’s Racism Thu, 11 Dec 2008 01:58:53 +0000 http://www.racismreview.com/blog/?p=418#comment-6024 [...] babies and deport and dispose. My uterus and my head is tired. Unfortunately, this is a lesson that white liberal feminists fail to get over centuries of opportunities to learn this lesson: there is nothing incompatible [...] [...] babies and deport and dispose. My uterus and my head is tired. Unfortunately, this is a lesson that white liberal feminists fail to get over centuries of opportunities to learn this lesson: there is nothing incompatible [...]

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]]> By: racismreview.com » Blog Archive » Sarah Palin and White Women’s Racism http://www.racismreview.com/blog/2008/07/22/white-women-who-dont-get-racism/comment-page-1/#comment-5153 racismreview.com » Blog Archive » Sarah Palin and White Women’s Racism Wed, 10 Sep 2008 14:12:42 +0000 http://www.racismreview.com/blog/?p=418#comment-5153 [...] this is a lesson that white liberal feminists fail to get over centuries of opportunities to learn this lesson: there is nothing incompatible [...] [...] this is a lesson that white liberal feminists fail to get over centuries of opportunities to learn this lesson: there is nothing incompatible [...]

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]]> By: Crying Out Loud « Pregnant Drug-Dealing Prostitutes http://www.racismreview.com/blog/2008/07/22/white-women-who-dont-get-racism/comment-page-1/#comment-4759 Crying Out Loud « Pregnant Drug-Dealing Prostitutes Thu, 14 Aug 2008 00:34:37 +0000 http://www.racismreview.com/blog/?p=418#comment-4759 [...] by Macon D of Stuff White People Do “On Being Fat and White” by Leslie of Fatshionista! “White Women Who Don’t Get Racism” by Leslie of Racism Review “White Privilege: It’s Everywhere I am Not” by Blackgirlinmaine [...] [...] by Macon D of Stuff White People Do “On Being Fat and White” by Leslie of Fatshionista! “White Women Who Don’t Get Racism” by Leslie of Racism Review “White Privilege: It’s Everywhere I am Not” by Blackgirlinmaine [...]

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]]> By: Joe http://www.racismreview.com/blog/2008/07/22/white-women-who-dont-get-racism/comment-page-1/#comment-4636 Joe Tue, 29 Jul 2008 19:56:37 +0000 http://www.racismreview.com/blog/?p=418#comment-4636 One key question to ask when someone tries the foolish question of which is more acceptable than the other, is simply to ask: more acceptable to whom?? One can start by identifying the "whom." White commentators in the media? or Whom? One key question to ask when someone tries the foolish question of which is more acceptable than the other, is simply to ask: more acceptable to whom?? One can start by identifying the “whom.” White commentators in the media? or Whom?

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]]> By: adia http://www.racismreview.com/blog/2008/07/22/white-women-who-dont-get-racism/comment-page-1/#comment-4605 adia Fri, 25 Jul 2008 05:23:19 +0000 http://www.racismreview.com/blog/?p=418#comment-4605 I love how white women like Couric and Ferraro, who are not and never will be disadvantaged by racism, can say that it's less severe than sexism. It is equally frustrating when black men who are never disadvantaged by sexism dismiss feminism as irrelevant and secondary. Narcissism and self-absorption of any color is so not cute. And really, shouldn't only minority women should get to say whether racism or sexism is worse, since we're the only ones who encounter both? I'm being sarcastic here--my real point is that minority women's voices are so overlooked on a topic where we really are the ultimate authorities, because this is our lived experience. If we did take minority women's lives more seriously, we might learn that in some cases racism is an obvious barrier, in other cases sexism is, and in most cases they both intersect to structure our daily realities. Privileging one oppression is a useless solution because it leaves the others in place. The only effective stance is to work to eliminate ALL forms of oppression. I love how white women like Couric and Ferraro, who are not and never will be disadvantaged by racism, can say that it’s less severe than sexism. It is equally frustrating when black men who are never disadvantaged by sexism dismiss feminism as irrelevant and secondary. Narcissism and self-absorption of any color is so not cute. And really, shouldn’t only minority women should get to say whether racism or sexism is worse, since we’re the only ones who encounter both? I’m being sarcastic here–my real point is that minority women’s voices are so overlooked on a topic where we really are the ultimate authorities, because this is our lived experience. If we did take minority women’s lives more seriously, we might learn that in some cases racism is an obvious barrier, in other cases sexism is, and in most cases they both intersect to
structure our daily realities. Privileging one oppression is a useless solution because it leaves the others in place. The only effective stance is to work to eliminate ALL forms of oppression.

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]]> By: Why can’t people get intersectionality? « Mangled Guts Pretending http://www.racismreview.com/blog/2008/07/22/white-women-who-dont-get-racism/comment-page-1/#comment-4599 Why can’t people get intersectionality? « Mangled Guts Pretending Thu, 24 Jul 2008 14:43:55 +0000 http://www.racismreview.com/blog/?p=418#comment-4599 [...] Racism Review presents a great article on Katie Couric who, despite her social standing, fails to make the connection among oppressions. Amazingly, she even has the audacity to say that sexism is much more prevalent and worse that racism. [...] [...] Racism Review presents a great article on Katie Couric who, despite her social standing, fails to make the connection among oppressions. Amazingly, she even has the audacity to say that sexism is much more prevalent and worse that racism. [...]

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