Comments on: Naive Political Commentaries and White Racist Performances http://www.racismreview.com/blog/2008/04/09/naive-political-commentaries-and-white-racist-action/ Wed, 17 Mar 2010 22:55:24 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: racismreview.com » Blog Archive » “Racism is the Only Reason McCain Might Beat Him” http://www.racismreview.com/blog/2008/04/09/naive-political-commentaries-and-white-racist-action/comment-page-1/#comment-4920 racismreview.com » Blog Archive » “Racism is the Only Reason McCain Might Beat Him” Tue, 26 Aug 2008 11:36:54 +0000 http://www.racismreview.com/blog/?p=232#comment-4920 [...] reiterates a point we have made with social science data on whites’ racist thinking on this site before: To some white voters (14 percent in the CBS/New [...] [...] reiterates a point we have made with social science data on whites’ racist thinking on this site before: To some white voters (14 percent in the CBS/New [...]

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]]> By: racismreview.com » Blog Archive » How Does Senator Obama Deal with Overt and Covert Racist Attacks? http://www.racismreview.com/blog/2008/04/09/naive-political-commentaries-and-white-racist-action/comment-page-1/#comment-4784 racismreview.com » Blog Archive » How Does Senator Obama Deal with Overt and Covert Racist Attacks? Sun, 17 Aug 2008 11:46:27 +0000 http://www.racismreview.com/blog/?p=232#comment-4784 [...] black man” is at its center? As I have pointed out several times on this blog, there is plenty of social science data indicating this is the reality today. Why does the media, or the left blogosphere, not deal directly [...] [...] black man” is at its center? As I have pointed out several times on this blog, there is plenty of social science data indicating this is the reality today. Why does the media, or the left blogosphere, not deal directly [...]

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]]> By: racismreview.com » Blog Archive » Republican Officials Admit Racism Helps Them Win Against Senator Obama http://www.racismreview.com/blog/2008/04/09/naive-political-commentaries-and-white-racist-action/comment-page-1/#comment-2704 racismreview.com » Blog Archive » Republican Officials Admit Racism Helps Them Win Against Senator Obama Thu, 24 Apr 2008 02:50:55 +0000 http://www.racismreview.com/blog/?p=232#comment-2704 [...] Recall the numerous research studies I have cited before that show that the apparent decrease in whites antiblack prejudices and stereotypes in opinion [...]

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]]> By: Seattle in Texas http://www.racismreview.com/blog/2008/04/09/naive-political-commentaries-and-white-racist-action/comment-page-1/#comment-2478 Seattle in Texas Mon, 14 Apr 2008 19:04:17 +0000 http://www.racismreview.com/blog/?p=232#comment-2478 Isabel, thank you for the clarification (always welcome) and do know your contributions are appreciated. Isabel, thank you for the clarification (always welcome) and do know your contributions are appreciated.

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]]> By: Isabel Adonis http://www.racismreview.com/blog/2008/04/09/naive-political-commentaries-and-white-racist-action/comment-page-1/#comment-2472 Isabel Adonis Mon, 14 Apr 2008 10:11:49 +0000 http://www.racismreview.com/blog/?p=232#comment-2472 For Seattle, I am not talking about a body of knowledge in terms of psychology. I am talking about being aware of ourselves from moment to moment, looking to our own racism, oppression and conflict. When we see how divided we are we will see the divisions of society are the same thing. Isabel. For Seattle,

I am not talking about a body of knowledge in terms of psychology. I am talking about being aware of ourselves from moment to moment, looking to our own racism, oppression and conflict. When we see how divided we are we will see the divisions of society are the same thing.

Isabel.

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]]> By: adia http://www.racismreview.com/blog/2008/04/09/naive-political-commentaries-and-white-racist-action/comment-page-1/#comment-2460 adia Sun, 13 Apr 2008 17:23:07 +0000 http://www.racismreview.com/blog/?p=232#comment-2460 Isabel--I don't mean to suggest that individuals are powerless when it comes to change; but that inasmuch as racism is entrenched and systemic it takes much more than one (or even two or three) individuals changing their mind to offset racism. This is what I mean when I say that racism is not only psychological but also economic, political, and sociological. Data on social institutions does not support your claim that one person with an antiracist mindset leads to a change in others, much less a change in extant social systems (see Moore 2008; Shapiro 2004 for just a few excellent discussions of how racism is reinforced in social systems, and Trepaniger 2007 for discussion of how well-meaning whites who have "changed their mind about race" still perpetuate racism). Nonracist individuals exist within institutions that, through their practices, policies, and norms perpetuate racial inequality, so stressing the power of the individual without also emphasizing the structure of the institution doesn't lead to change. It leads to frustrated individuals. Rosa Parks "changed her mind," but the impact this had one some whites who chose to join the Civil Rights movement and work for equality DIDN'T lead to changes in the fundamental aspects of the legal, political, educational, and economic systems that are premised on Black inequality (see Feagin 2006). Don't misunderstand--I'm not saying that the Civil Rights movement made no changes, obviously it did, but that the basic structural aspects of these system that are founded on advantaging whites at the expense of minorities hasn't changed at all. My point is that changing minds is not an end unto itself. It is only the first step, because the institutions that perpetuate inequality have to change as well. Isabel–I don’t mean to suggest that individuals are powerless when it comes to change; but that inasmuch as racism is entrenched and systemic it takes much more than one (or even two or three) individuals changing their mind to offset racism. This is what I mean when I say that racism is not only psychological but also economic, political, and sociological. Data on social institutions does not support your claim that one person with an antiracist mindset leads to a change in others, much less a change in extant social systems (see Moore 2008; Shapiro 2004 for just a few excellent discussions of how racism is reinforced in social systems, and Trepaniger 2007 for discussion of how well-meaning whites who have “changed their mind about race” still perpetuate racism). Nonracist individuals exist within institutions that, through their practices, policies, and norms perpetuate racial inequality, so stressing the power of the individual without also emphasizing the structure of the institution doesn’t lead to change. It leads to frustrated individuals. Rosa Parks “changed her mind,” but the impact this had one some whites who chose to join the Civil Rights movement and work for equality DIDN’T lead to changes in the fundamental aspects of the legal, political, educational, and economic systems that are premised on Black inequality (see Feagin 2006). Don’t misunderstand–I’m not saying that the Civil Rights movement made no changes, obviously it did, but that the basic structural aspects of these system that are founded on advantaging whites at the expense of minorities hasn’t changed at all. My point is that changing minds is not an end unto itself. It is only the first step, because the institutions that perpetuate inequality have to change as well.

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]]> By: Isabel Adonis http://www.racismreview.com/blog/2008/04/09/naive-political-commentaries-and-white-racist-action/comment-page-1/#comment-2457 Isabel Adonis Sun, 13 Apr 2008 16:58:29 +0000 http://www.racismreview.com/blog/?p=232#comment-2457 Adia, Institutions are made up of individual people and if one changes their mind about race then this will bring about change in others. Take Rosa Parks for instance, she didn't get up for a white person and she made history. She just changed her mind. It was only a small idea and not a big one. Last night I was watching a short youtube video about Johnathen Kozol. He was saying that black children in one particular area received half as much for their schooling as a white children in a nearby area. Now all it would take to remedy this inequality would be for one person to change their mind and make a flick of a pen. Why black kids could get more money - the same as white kids and unversity teachers could get half ! They wouldn't mind either because they had changed their minds. best Isabel. Adia,

Institutions are made up of individual people and if one changes their mind about race then this will bring about change in others. Take Rosa Parks for instance, she didn’t get up for a white person and she made history. She just changed her mind. It was only a small idea and not a big one.

Last night I was watching a short youtube video about Johnathen Kozol. He was saying that black children in one particular area received half as much for their schooling as a white children in a nearby area. Now all it would take to remedy this inequality would be for one person to change their mind and make a flick of a pen.

Why black kids could get more money – the same as white kids and unversity teachers could get half ! They wouldn’t mind either because they had changed their minds.

best Isabel.

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]]> By: Seattle in Texas http://www.racismreview.com/blog/2008/04/09/naive-political-commentaries-and-white-racist-action/comment-page-1/#comment-2454 Seattle in Texas Sun, 13 Apr 2008 15:16:40 +0000 http://www.racismreview.com/blog/?p=232#comment-2454 All the ideas above are very thought provoking and important. My appreciation for psychology (cognitive and gestalt in particular) values Isabel’s thoughts, while my appreciation for sociology appreciates the others—and my appreciation for a particular type of social psychology, is able to see how they all actually compliment one another and need not be mutually exclusive and separate. Throw philosophy in there (Toni Morrison and Luscious T. Outlaw, and others speak of the importance of metaphysical issues for example)…hmmm, wow! And, if we have love for C. Wright Mills, we would be able to see why all the comments above are important and useful for discussions on racism. (nothing wrong with interdisciplinary discussions and work in my opinion) :) But I just wanted to touch on the psychological perspective and the notion of identity, as it’s one I have been pondering on for a while, I think it’s great Isabel brought it up and from a metaphysical perspective think I see where she is coming from—I think she is trying to address the chicken/egg question. But in terms of identity, I like the idea of it being associated with power dynamics and dialectical processes. But I think maybe it is also an ongoing process that and is also composed of elements of resistance and/or discovery, and/or perhaps maturation. For example, years ago some of my friends were of the Aleut tribe (culturally, ethnically), but two of them I mention here because in the “white” language, they are full blooded, yet have blue eyes, blonde hair, and fair skin. Those who do not know them would assume them to be white, though when they talk their communication and speech patterns were certainly different from the white whites (this is cultural, by the way—NOT from “lower intelligence”—they definitely were not “White” Indians—they were proudly in touch). A different example to contrast is with a student at a former university I went to—his father is Black and mother White. His brother has a darker skin tone, while his is very light and he has blue/green eyes. He keeps his hair cut very short so he can pass in the white environment. He hides his family from the university environment (imagine the impact that has on his family). Examples could go on forever. But many also have fairly immediate ancestry that goes back to both slavery and/or genocide (national and/or international), plus slave ownership, etc.—both sides of the coin (Michelle Obama for example). So I see how the cognitive processes related to perceptions and identity are important too. All the ideas above are very thought provoking and important. My appreciation for psychology (cognitive and gestalt in particular) values Isabel’s thoughts, while my appreciation for sociology appreciates the others—and my appreciation for a particular type of social psychology, is able to see how they all actually compliment one another and need not be mutually exclusive and separate. Throw philosophy in there (Toni Morrison and Luscious T. Outlaw, and others speak of the importance of metaphysical issues for example)…hmmm, wow! And, if we have love for C. Wright Mills, we would be able to see why all the comments above are important and useful for discussions on racism. (nothing wrong with interdisciplinary discussions and work in my opinion) :)

But I just wanted to touch on the psychological perspective and the notion of identity, as it’s one I have been pondering on for a while, I think it’s great Isabel brought it up and from a metaphysical perspective think I see where she is coming from—I think she is trying to address the chicken/egg question. But in terms of identity, I like the idea of it being associated with power dynamics and dialectical processes. But I think maybe it is also an ongoing process that and is also composed of elements of resistance and/or discovery, and/or perhaps maturation. For example, years ago some of my friends were of the Aleut tribe (culturally, ethnically), but two of them I mention here because in the “white” language, they are full blooded, yet have blue eyes, blonde hair, and fair skin. Those who do not know them would assume them to be white, though when they talk their communication and speech patterns were certainly different from the white whites (this is cultural, by the way—NOT from “lower intelligence”—they definitely were not “White” Indians—they were proudly in touch). A different example to contrast is with a student at a former university I went to—his father is Black and mother White. His brother has a darker skin tone, while his is very light and he has blue/green eyes. He keeps his hair cut very short so he can pass in the white environment. He hides his family from the university environment (imagine the impact that has on his family). Examples could go on forever. But many also have fairly immediate ancestry that goes back to both slavery and/or genocide (national and/or international), plus slave ownership, etc.—both sides of the coin (Michelle Obama for example). So I see how the cognitive processes related to perceptions and identity are important too.

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]]> By: adia http://www.racismreview.com/blog/2008/04/09/naive-political-commentaries-and-white-racist-action/comment-page-1/#comment-2436 adia Sat, 12 Apr 2008 03:03:07 +0000 http://www.racismreview.com/blog/?p=232#comment-2436 Isabel, you seem determined to stress psychological explanations for racism when in truth racism is also buttressed and perpetuated by economic and sociological causes. Well meaning whites can hold no ill will towards minorities but still benefit from (and act in collusion with) institutional structures that reproduce racial inequalities. A psychological perspective alone is simply insufficient to address the entrenched, systemic nature of racism. While it is important to change racist minds, this alone doesn't undermine the institutionalized systems that perpetuate racist inequalities. Hence the focus in these posts on various aspects of the social structure. Isabel, you seem determined to stress psychological explanations for racism when in truth racism is also buttressed and perpetuated by economic and sociological causes. Well meaning whites can hold no ill will towards minorities but still benefit from (and act in collusion with) institutional structures that reproduce racial inequalities. A psychological perspective alone is simply insufficient to address the entrenched, systemic nature of racism. While it is important to change racist minds, this alone doesn’t undermine the institutionalized systems that perpetuate racist inequalities. Hence the focus in these posts on various aspects of the social structure.

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]]> By: Laura http://www.racismreview.com/blog/2008/04/09/naive-political-commentaries-and-white-racist-action/comment-page-1/#comment-2426 Laura Fri, 11 Apr 2008 18:09:38 +0000 http://www.racismreview.com/blog/?p=232#comment-2426 I really appreciate the suggestions on how to "out" the performances as I often just keep quiet having no idea what to do. Once I just said flat out "I don't find these jokes funny" and left the room. Of course I got a lot of shit for it but since then this group of people has lessened those types of jokes around me. I'm certain I didn't change their overall behavior at all but at least there is one less person in the world they won't act that way around. I really appreciate the suggestions on how to “out” the performances as I often just keep quiet having no idea what to do. Once I just said flat out “I don’t find these jokes funny” and left the room. Of course I got a lot of shit for it but since then this group of people has lessened those types of jokes around me. I’m certain I didn’t change their overall behavior at all but at least there is one less person in the world they won’t act that way around.

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