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	<title>Comments on: DNA and Scientific Racism</title>
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		<title>By: racismreview.com &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Race and Medicine</title>
		<link>http://www.racismreview.com/blog/2007/11/12/dna-and-scientific-racism/comment-page-1/#comment-4860</link>
		<dc:creator>racismreview.com &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Race and Medicine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 23:51:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] have to say, I feel quite vindicated, given the little dust-up back in November 2007 (see the comments) with guys who wanted to argue that the &#8220;reality of race is genetic.&#8221; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] have to say, I feel quite vindicated, given the little dust-up back in November 2007 (see the comments) with guys who wanted to argue that the &#8220;reality of race is genetic.&#8221; [...]
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-4860" src="http://www.racismreview.com/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('4860', 'add', 'www.racismreview.com/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <small id="karma-4860-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</small>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-4860" src="http://www.racismreview.com/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('4860', 'subtract', 'www.racismreview.com/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <small id="karma-4860-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</small></p>
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		<title>By: Seattle in Texas</title>
		<link>http://www.racismreview.com/blog/2007/11/12/dna-and-scientific-racism/comment-page-1/#comment-158</link>
		<dc:creator>Seattle in Texas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Nov 2007 15:01:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.racismreview.com/blog/?p=93#comment-158</guid>
		<description>“Organized white racism is about a mood—lonely resentment—and several ideas—white specialness, the biological significance of ‘race,’ and the primacy of power in human relations. These ideas and the feeling of being cheated (not unique to racists) are powerfully motivating in the absence of ideas that might lead to more positive action…The appeal of white racist ideologies reflects the absence of competing sets of thought, emotion and experience, competing faiths that say ‘That is how the world is constructed’ and ‘This is how you can become a person who matters and whose life matters’” (Ezekiel 321:1995). That quote extends beyond organized hate groups and is certainly applicable to various types of knowledge in mainstream social settings—continuously reinforced and internalized everyday by people of all backgrounds throughout this nation…both through private and “legitimate” institutionalized settings….</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“Organized white racism is about a mood—lonely resentment—and several ideas—white specialness, the biological significance of ‘race,’ and the primacy of power in human relations. These ideas and the feeling of being cheated (not unique to racists) are powerfully motivating in the absence of ideas that might lead to more positive action…The appeal of white racist ideologies reflects the absence of competing sets of thought, emotion and experience, competing faiths that say ‘That is how the world is constructed’ and ‘This is how you can become a person who matters and whose life matters’” (Ezekiel 321:1995). That quote extends beyond organized hate groups and is certainly applicable to various types of knowledge in mainstream social settings—continuously reinforced and internalized everyday by people of all backgrounds throughout this nation…both through private and “legitimate” institutionalized settings….
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-158" src="http://www.racismreview.com/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('158', 'add', 'www.racismreview.com/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <small id="karma-158-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</small>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-158" src="http://www.racismreview.com/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('158', 'subtract', 'www.racismreview.com/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <small id="karma-158-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</small></p>
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		<title>By: Seattle in Texas</title>
		<link>http://www.racismreview.com/blog/2007/11/12/dna-and-scientific-racism/comment-page-1/#comment-156</link>
		<dc:creator>Seattle in Texas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Nov 2007 13:10:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.racismreview.com/blog/?p=93#comment-156</guid>
		<description>You should read the book when you have time—sometimes elements of their thoughts, patterns of communication, and even actions are reproduced with or without even realizing it (or deliberately) in private, public, and professional settings. Racism cannot be fought without knowing how the racists think—that thinking extends far beyond members of official hate groups. To fight it, you have to know it, as ugly and uninteresting as it may be. The book may cool some flames—as might the other suggested readings in this website. I would follow the Racist Mind with White Racism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You should read the book when you have time—sometimes elements of their thoughts, patterns of communication, and even actions are reproduced with or without even realizing it (or deliberately) in private, public, and professional settings. Racism cannot be fought without knowing how the racists think—that thinking extends far beyond members of official hate groups. To fight it, you have to know it, as ugly and uninteresting as it may be. The book may cool some flames—as might the other suggested readings in this website. I would follow the Racist Mind with White Racism.
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-156" src="http://www.racismreview.com/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('156', 'add', 'www.racismreview.com/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <small id="karma-156-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</small>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-156" src="http://www.racismreview.com/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('156', 'subtract', 'www.racismreview.com/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <small id="karma-156-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</small></p>
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		<title>By: TGGP</title>
		<link>http://www.racismreview.com/blog/2007/11/12/dna-and-scientific-racism/comment-page-1/#comment-151</link>
		<dc:creator>TGGP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2007 07:23:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.racismreview.com/blog/?p=93#comment-151</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;all too familiar with relation to the Pacific Northwest&lt;/i&gt;
If you had asked me to guess the regions of America with the least presence of such repulsive types, I would have guessed the Pacific Northwest after the Northeast. Perhaps it just goes to show what I know.

&lt;i&gt;Please read, when you have time: “The Racist Mind: Portraits of American Neo-Nazis and Klansmen” by Raphael S. Ezekiel.&lt;/i&gt;
American Nazis strike me as too unimportant to waste time reading about. The historical Klan was once something of significance (Woodrow Wilson, may he burn in hell if I am wrong and the place does exist, was tight with some of them) but has become ever more &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.waff.com/Global/story.asp?S=7281616&amp;nav=menu62_1_2&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;pathetic&lt;/a&gt; as the years go on. At any rate I promised someone I would read Walter Lippman&#039;s &quot;Public Opinion&quot; right after Franz Oppenheimer&#039;s &quot;The State&quot;, but I might read &quot;The Enterprise of Law&quot; before then. Long before I get to your book I&#039;ll probably purchase The Blank Slate, Demonic Males and (though it doesn&#039;t come out to January 10th) Violence: A Micro-Sociological Theory. If I actually wanted to get into the mind of a modern American racist I would be more likely to read &lt;a href=&quot;http://hooverhog.typepad.com/hognotes/2006/09/racial_realitie.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this&lt;/a&gt;, but as it is I don&#039;t have any special desire and can settle for the &lt;a href=&quot;http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2007/11/why-i-am-not-white-nationalist.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;many blogs&lt;/a&gt; out there for a light sprinking of insight.

&lt;i&gt;White supremacy engulfs this nation&lt;/i&gt;
If White supremacy engulfed this nation then there would be no crypto-white supremacists or &quot;cloaked&quot; white supremacy sites. People would instead dishonestly claim to be white supremacists so that they would gain more respect among their peers (this actually was the case with the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2007/09/the-ku-klux-kla.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;1920s Klan&lt;/a&gt;). Your statement is simply laughable.

&lt;i&gt;including the education system&lt;/i&gt;
So am I just imagining that Glenn Singleton is employed by the education system to root out racism, that many universities offer &quot;[insert ethnic/racial group here] studies&quot; courses though of course they recognize that a white studies (entirely different from &quot;whiteness studies&quot;) course would not be an actual worthwhile academic field but simply racial grandstanding? There have been actual white supremacist governments, and I don&#039;t recall any of them doing anything remotely like that.

&lt;i&gt;I would argue, even science.&lt;/i&gt;
Then why did Watson lose his job? If white supremacists were in charge wouldn&#039;t they have given him a pat on the back? The things you say make it seem as if you&#039;ve been living in an entirely different time and place with little resemblance to modern America.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>all too familiar with relation to the Pacific Northwest</i><br />
If you had asked me to guess the regions of America with the least presence of such repulsive types, I would have guessed the Pacific Northwest after the Northeast. Perhaps it just goes to show what I know.</p>
<p><i>Please read, when you have time: “The Racist Mind: Portraits of American Neo-Nazis and Klansmen” by Raphael S. Ezekiel.</i><br />
American Nazis strike me as too unimportant to waste time reading about. The historical Klan was once something of significance (Woodrow Wilson, may he burn in hell if I am wrong and the place does exist, was tight with some of them) but has become ever more <a href="http://www.waff.com/Global/story.asp?S=7281616&amp;nav=menu62_1_2" rel="nofollow">pathetic</a> as the years go on. At any rate I promised someone I would read Walter Lippman&#8217;s &#8220;Public Opinion&#8221; right after Franz Oppenheimer&#8217;s &#8220;The State&#8221;, but I might read &#8220;The Enterprise of Law&#8221; before then. Long before I get to your book I&#8217;ll probably purchase The Blank Slate, Demonic Males and (though it doesn&#8217;t come out to January 10th) Violence: A Micro-Sociological Theory. If I actually wanted to get into the mind of a modern American racist I would be more likely to read <a href="http://hooverhog.typepad.com/hognotes/2006/09/racial_realitie.html" rel="nofollow">this</a>, but as it is I don&#8217;t have any special desire and can settle for the <a href="http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2007/11/why-i-am-not-white-nationalist.html" rel="nofollow">many blogs</a> out there for a light sprinking of insight.</p>
<p><i>White supremacy engulfs this nation</i><br />
If White supremacy engulfed this nation then there would be no crypto-white supremacists or &#8220;cloaked&#8221; white supremacy sites. People would instead dishonestly claim to be white supremacists so that they would gain more respect among their peers (this actually was the case with the <a href="http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2007/09/the-ku-klux-kla.html" rel="nofollow">1920s Klan</a>). Your statement is simply laughable.</p>
<p><i>including the education system</i><br />
So am I just imagining that Glenn Singleton is employed by the education system to root out racism, that many universities offer &#8220;[insert ethnic/racial group here] studies&#8221; courses though of course they recognize that a white studies (entirely different from &#8220;whiteness studies&#8221;) course would not be an actual worthwhile academic field but simply racial grandstanding? There have been actual white supremacist governments, and I don&#8217;t recall any of them doing anything remotely like that.</p>
<p><i>I would argue, even science.</i><br />
Then why did Watson lose his job? If white supremacists were in charge wouldn&#8217;t they have given him a pat on the back? The things you say make it seem as if you&#8217;ve been living in an entirely different time and place with little resemblance to modern America.
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-151" src="http://www.racismreview.com/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('151', 'add', 'www.racismreview.com/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <small id="karma-151-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</small>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-151" src="http://www.racismreview.com/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('151', 'subtract', 'www.racismreview.com/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <small id="karma-151-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</small></p>
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		<title>By: Seattle in Texas</title>
		<link>http://www.racismreview.com/blog/2007/11/12/dna-and-scientific-racism/comment-page-1/#comment-149</link>
		<dc:creator>Seattle in Texas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2007 02:35:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.racismreview.com/blog/?p=93#comment-149</guid>
		<description>TGGP, my friend, please let me suggest another reading to you as I am, and have been,  sensing something all too familiar with relation to the Pacific Northwest. Please read, when you have time: “The Racist Mind: Portraits of American Neo-Nazis and Klansmen” by Raphael S. Ezekiel. White supremacy engulfs this nation, including the education system and I would argue, even science.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TGGP, my friend, please let me suggest another reading to you as I am, and have been,  sensing something all too familiar with relation to the Pacific Northwest. Please read, when you have time: “The Racist Mind: Portraits of American Neo-Nazis and Klansmen” by Raphael S. Ezekiel. White supremacy engulfs this nation, including the education system and I would argue, even science.
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-149" src="http://www.racismreview.com/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('149', 'add', 'www.racismreview.com/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <small id="karma-149-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</small>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-149" src="http://www.racismreview.com/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('149', 'subtract', 'www.racismreview.com/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <small id="karma-149-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</small></p>
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		<title>By: TGGP</title>
		<link>http://www.racismreview.com/blog/2007/11/12/dna-and-scientific-racism/comment-page-1/#comment-148</link>
		<dc:creator>TGGP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2007 01:31:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.racismreview.com/blog/?p=93#comment-148</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;My guess is that your expertise in metaphysics will shoot down that suggestion—or you take the position that philosophy is not relevant to science.&lt;/i&gt;
I do take that position.

&lt;i&gt;Dare to think outside the box or be a free thinker—that’s what Copernicus, Galileo, Newton, etc. did.&lt;/i&gt;
I could easily turn the argument back around to you. People who use that are &lt;a href=&quot;http://fourthcheckraise.blogspot.com/2007/11/minds-are-like-parachutes-and-other.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;usually&lt;/a&gt; asking people who currently disagree with them to agree with them but are not willing to return the favor.

&lt;i&gt;And has science reached it’s ultimate potential for knowledge in current times?&lt;/i&gt;
Of course not, I expect for things such as genes that predispose people to higher intelligence will be found, and then hopefully we will use that knowledge for genetic engineering.

&lt;i&gt;My home city announces every so often that it does experiments in the medical communities—experiments with treatments that are based on random assignment, which is not voluntary&lt;/i&gt;
I have been a subject in experiments myself and they always ensured I was aware of any potential dangers or discomforts and secured my consent. It was my impression that not doing so opens one up to legal troubles. Of course, if by &quot;voluntary&quot; you meant not-paid rather than without consent it is an entirely different story.

&lt;i&gt;you great Metaphysicists you&lt;/i&gt;
I think metaphysics is a waste of time, which does not make me a metaphysicist but a meta-metaphysicist.

&lt;i&gt;“voluntary eugenics”&lt;/i&gt;
Is there a reason for the scare quotes?

&lt;i&gt;Let’s be purely objective and ignore the potential social consequences—after all, like religion, it reduces responsibility and blame.&lt;/i&gt;
Perhaps if I could read minds I would know what you were getting at, but right now it strikes me as &lt;a href=&quot;http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/loopy.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;loopy&lt;/a&gt;.

&lt;i&gt;I suppose science is superior&lt;/i&gt;
Superior would seem to imply some normative criterion, which as an emotivist I hold to be inherently subjective and lacking in truth value (neither true nor false in an objective sense).

&lt;i&gt;to Voo Doo, witch doctors, Santeria, and other cultural and ethnic beliefs and practices, etc.&lt;/i&gt;
Science can do things they cannot. It is on those grounds that I say science is different. I am willing to hear out Vox Day in &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=54544&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;his claim that science is worse than religion&lt;/a&gt;.

&lt;i&gt;Feyerabend&lt;/i&gt;
Speaking of him, while David Stove is also a fool it is great fun to &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Facility/4118/dcs/popper/popper.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;read him&lt;/a&gt; go after the &quot;four irrationalists&quot; (Popper, Kuhn, Lakatos and Feyerabend).

&lt;i&gt;I have to say, I am taken aback with your closed-mindedness&lt;/i&gt;
I would say I am taken aback at your close-minded reaction to what I have said, except that I don&#039;t find it surprising.

&lt;i&gt;there’s a saying that ignorance is bliss…but I think it should be that the superiority complex is bliss.&lt;/i&gt;
Is there a study you would propose to falsify one or the other (or possibly both) hypothesis?

&lt;i&gt;I think you need to take a trip to Holland and relax a bit&lt;/i&gt;
I am relaxed enough already, I don&#039;t need to go to Holland. I suppose you might be suggesting the use of consciousness-altering drugs, to which I say that I have no problem with others using them but personally I&#039;ll pass.

&lt;i&gt;….perhaps expand the mind….&lt;/i&gt;
Again, the ellipses are unnecessary.

Alice in Chains was much better than Mad Season. It is a shame that Layne is dead. Perhaps he should have avoided expanding his mind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>My guess is that your expertise in metaphysics will shoot down that suggestion—or you take the position that philosophy is not relevant to science.</i><br />
I do take that position.</p>
<p><i>Dare to think outside the box or be a free thinker—that’s what Copernicus, Galileo, Newton, etc. did.</i><br />
I could easily turn the argument back around to you. People who use that are <a href="http://fourthcheckraise.blogspot.com/2007/11/minds-are-like-parachutes-and-other.html" rel="nofollow">usually</a> asking people who currently disagree with them to agree with them but are not willing to return the favor.</p>
<p><i>And has science reached it’s ultimate potential for knowledge in current times?</i><br />
Of course not, I expect for things such as genes that predispose people to higher intelligence will be found, and then hopefully we will use that knowledge for genetic engineering.</p>
<p><i>My home city announces every so often that it does experiments in the medical communities—experiments with treatments that are based on random assignment, which is not voluntary</i><br />
I have been a subject in experiments myself and they always ensured I was aware of any potential dangers or discomforts and secured my consent. It was my impression that not doing so opens one up to legal troubles. Of course, if by &#8220;voluntary&#8221; you meant not-paid rather than without consent it is an entirely different story.</p>
<p><i>you great Metaphysicists you</i><br />
I think metaphysics is a waste of time, which does not make me a metaphysicist but a meta-metaphysicist.</p>
<p><i>“voluntary eugenics”</i><br />
Is there a reason for the scare quotes?</p>
<p><i>Let’s be purely objective and ignore the potential social consequences—after all, like religion, it reduces responsibility and blame.</i><br />
Perhaps if I could read minds I would know what you were getting at, but right now it strikes me as <a href="http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/loopy.htm" rel="nofollow">loopy</a>.</p>
<p><i>I suppose science is superior</i><br />
Superior would seem to imply some normative criterion, which as an emotivist I hold to be inherently subjective and lacking in truth value (neither true nor false in an objective sense).</p>
<p><i>to Voo Doo, witch doctors, Santeria, and other cultural and ethnic beliefs and practices, etc.</i><br />
Science can do things they cannot. It is on those grounds that I say science is different. I am willing to hear out Vox Day in <a href="http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=54544" rel="nofollow">his claim that science is worse than religion</a>.</p>
<p><i>Feyerabend</i><br />
Speaking of him, while David Stove is also a fool it is great fun to <a href="http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Facility/4118/dcs/popper/popper.html" rel="nofollow">read him</a> go after the &#8220;four irrationalists&#8221; (Popper, Kuhn, Lakatos and Feyerabend).</p>
<p><i>I have to say, I am taken aback with your closed-mindedness</i><br />
I would say I am taken aback at your close-minded reaction to what I have said, except that I don&#8217;t find it surprising.</p>
<p><i>there’s a saying that ignorance is bliss…but I think it should be that the superiority complex is bliss.</i><br />
Is there a study you would propose to falsify one or the other (or possibly both) hypothesis?</p>
<p><i>I think you need to take a trip to Holland and relax a bit</i><br />
I am relaxed enough already, I don&#8217;t need to go to Holland. I suppose you might be suggesting the use of consciousness-altering drugs, to which I say that I have no problem with others using them but personally I&#8217;ll pass.</p>
<p><i>….perhaps expand the mind….</i><br />
Again, the ellipses are unnecessary.</p>
<p>Alice in Chains was much better than Mad Season. It is a shame that Layne is dead. Perhaps he should have avoided expanding his mind.
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-148" src="http://www.racismreview.com/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('148', 'add', 'www.racismreview.com/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <small id="karma-148-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</small>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-148" src="http://www.racismreview.com/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('148', 'subtract', 'www.racismreview.com/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <small id="karma-148-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</small></p>
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		<title>By: Seattle in Texas</title>
		<link>http://www.racismreview.com/blog/2007/11/12/dna-and-scientific-racism/comment-page-1/#comment-146</link>
		<dc:creator>Seattle in Texas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2007 15:59:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.racismreview.com/blog/?p=93#comment-146</guid>
		<description>TGGP--If your bored, here&#039;s something to deconstruct (it actutally hits on knowledge--Goddard would have loved this):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1DLQTLyOGU&amp;feature=related</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TGGP&#8211;If your bored, here&#8217;s something to deconstruct (it actutally hits on knowledge&#8211;Goddard would have loved this):</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1DLQTLyOGU&amp;feature=related" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1DLQTLyOGU&amp;feature=related</a>
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-146" src="http://www.racismreview.com/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('146', 'add', 'www.racismreview.com/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <small id="karma-146-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</small>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-146" src="http://www.racismreview.com/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('146', 'subtract', 'www.racismreview.com/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <small id="karma-146-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</small></p>
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		<title>By: Seattle in Texas</title>
		<link>http://www.racismreview.com/blog/2007/11/12/dna-and-scientific-racism/comment-page-1/#comment-145</link>
		<dc:creator>Seattle in Texas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2007 15:46:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.racismreview.com/blog/?p=93#comment-145</guid>
		<description>I love the echo..echo….echo……echo……..echo………echo of the posts. While the universe may not care about arguments about social construction—it reinforces social constructs of various sorts, necessarily resulting in social consequences (positive for some and negative for others) regardless of how “objective” the scientists may be. I have also heard “objectivity” is an impossibility too—it’s something to strive for, but impossible to fully accomplish. My guess is that your expertise in metaphysics will shoot down that suggestion—or you take the position that philosophy is not relevant to science. Dare to think outside the box or be a free thinker—that’s what Copernicus, Galileo, Newton, etc. did. And has science reached it’s ultimate potential for knowledge in current times? If so, that’s scary—I don’t have that much faith in it, that’s for sure. My home city announces every so often that it does experiments in the medical communities—experiments with treatments that are based on random assignment, which is not voluntary (I’m not so sure if Bill Gates, among others up there, were to suffer a heart attack or other health related condition they would simply be thrown in a condition randomly), plus, as you suggested (you great Metaphysicists you) “voluntary eugenics” occurs. Let’s be purely objective and ignore the potential social consequences—after all, like religion, it reduces responsibility and blame. I suppose science is superior to Voo Doo, witch doctors, Santeria, and other cultural and ethnic beliefs and practices, etc. too…. Some people have faith in science, some religion, some both  Here’s something to muse over from Diesing (1991) who quotes Feyerabend: “Knowledge…is not a series of self-consistent theories that converge towards an ideal view; it is not a gradual approach to the truth. It is rather an ever increasing ocean of mutually incompatible alternatives, each a single theory…forcing the others into greater articulation and al of them contributing via this process of competition, to the development of our consciousness”—but such assertion makes Feyerabend an idiot in the language and context used above. I have to say, I am taken aback with your closed-mindedness—there’s a saying that ignorance is bliss…but I think it should be that the superiority complex is bliss. I think you need to take a trip to Holland and relax a bit….perhaps expand the mind….</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love the echo..echo….echo……echo……..echo………echo of the posts. While the universe may not care about arguments about social construction—it reinforces social constructs of various sorts, necessarily resulting in social consequences (positive for some and negative for others) regardless of how “objective” the scientists may be. I have also heard “objectivity” is an impossibility too—it’s something to strive for, but impossible to fully accomplish. My guess is that your expertise in metaphysics will shoot down that suggestion—or you take the position that philosophy is not relevant to science. Dare to think outside the box or be a free thinker—that’s what Copernicus, Galileo, Newton, etc. did. And has science reached it’s ultimate potential for knowledge in current times? If so, that’s scary—I don’t have that much faith in it, that’s for sure. My home city announces every so often that it does experiments in the medical communities—experiments with treatments that are based on random assignment, which is not voluntary (I’m not so sure if Bill Gates, among others up there, were to suffer a heart attack or other health related condition they would simply be thrown in a condition randomly), plus, as you suggested (you great Metaphysicists you) “voluntary eugenics” occurs. Let’s be purely objective and ignore the potential social consequences—after all, like religion, it reduces responsibility and blame. I suppose science is superior to Voo Doo, witch doctors, Santeria, and other cultural and ethnic beliefs and practices, etc. too…. Some people have faith in science, some religion, some both  Here’s something to muse over from Diesing (1991) who quotes Feyerabend: “Knowledge…is not a series of self-consistent theories that converge towards an ideal view; it is not a gradual approach to the truth. It is rather an ever increasing ocean of mutually incompatible alternatives, each a single theory…forcing the others into greater articulation and al of them contributing via this process of competition, to the development of our consciousness”—but such assertion makes Feyerabend an idiot in the language and context used above. I have to say, I am taken aback with your closed-mindedness—there’s a saying that ignorance is bliss…but I think it should be that the superiority complex is bliss. I think you need to take a trip to Holland and relax a bit….perhaps expand the mind….
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-145" src="http://www.racismreview.com/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('145', 'add', 'www.racismreview.com/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <small id="karma-145-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</small>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-145" src="http://www.racismreview.com/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('145', 'subtract', 'www.racismreview.com/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <small id="karma-145-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</small></p>
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		<title>By: TGGP</title>
		<link>http://www.racismreview.com/blog/2007/11/12/dna-and-scientific-racism/comment-page-1/#comment-143</link>
		<dc:creator>TGGP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2007 06:09:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.racismreview.com/blog/?p=93#comment-143</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Rather, they go against the grain and challenge it.&lt;/i&gt;
Like Summers and Watson, both of whom lost their jobs because of what they said? I don&#039;t put social &quot;scientists&quot; like Summers in the same category as hard scientists, but what makes Watson not a lousy scientist is not any political activity (I suppose that could make him a great activist, though whether a cause is worthy is an irresolvable dispute) is the tangible products of his work, which is why he won a Nobel (though I would say prizes in areas other than the hard sciences are questionable). A religion does not produce those kinds of results and yacking about science being a religion won&#039;t get you them either. The Universe does not pay attention to clever arguments about social construction, it bends only to objective understanding.

&lt;i&gt;Both science and religion can be good (all religions)&lt;/i&gt;
Even esoteric Hitlerism? Some religions are so value-laden you would be hard-pressed to find anything good in them.

&lt;i&gt;With that—science can be, and has been, just as dangerous as religion.&lt;/i&gt;
I would say even moreso. Science can split the atom, what in comparison can religion do? I suspect that most things attributed to it would not differ too much in its absence.

&lt;i&gt;And to suggest science is value free&lt;/i&gt;
Something tells me you don&#039;t understand what wertfrei means.

&lt;i&gt;values underlie whether or not conceptions of race are actually scientific or not.&lt;/i&gt;
No matter your values, when you feed a bunch of DNA into a computer and ask it to do clustering analysis, the result is the same.

&lt;i&gt;Durkheim said that anything that is social is religious.&lt;/i&gt;
Science is not inherently social (imagine a solitary immortal human in a universe like ours, it would most likely have a good deal of scientific discoveries) and not all social things are inherently religious. When a word is thrown around to mean everything, it no longer means anything.

&lt;i&gt;I have to close this one with the suggestion that the term “Anglo” is another great example of a white social construct&lt;/i&gt;
It was constructed by whites, yes, there weren&#039;t nearly as many non-whites in the area at the time. It derives from the tribe of Angles and came to describe the English-speaking peoples with roots in England. Perhaps it could be argued that Saxon is just as good a term (I don&#039;t actually know), but it&#039;s hardly important. What is relevant is that nobody considers the French Anglos and &quot;wogs begin at Calais&quot; aside, they are universally accepted as white. Your use of the term indicates severe carelessness on your part.

&lt;i&gt;t has such an elegant ring to it compared to the other terms I’ve heard&lt;/i&gt;
What kinds of terms? &quot;Hydraulic&quot;? That&#039;s a term. Unless you give me examples it&#039;s impossible for me to understand your comparison.

&lt;i&gt;…”Anglo”…white supremacy….&lt;/i&gt;
Usually the use of ellipses is to indicate a pause or to allow the reader to fill in the blanks, but here I really don&#039;t know what you&#039;re getting at.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Rather, they go against the grain and challenge it.</i><br />
Like Summers and Watson, both of whom lost their jobs because of what they said? I don&#8217;t put social &#8220;scientists&#8221; like Summers in the same category as hard scientists, but what makes Watson not a lousy scientist is not any political activity (I suppose that could make him a great activist, though whether a cause is worthy is an irresolvable dispute) is the tangible products of his work, which is why he won a Nobel (though I would say prizes in areas other than the hard sciences are questionable). A religion does not produce those kinds of results and yacking about science being a religion won&#8217;t get you them either. The Universe does not pay attention to clever arguments about social construction, it bends only to objective understanding.</p>
<p><i>Both science and religion can be good (all religions)</i><br />
Even esoteric Hitlerism? Some religions are so value-laden you would be hard-pressed to find anything good in them.</p>
<p><i>With that—science can be, and has been, just as dangerous as religion.</i><br />
I would say even moreso. Science can split the atom, what in comparison can religion do? I suspect that most things attributed to it would not differ too much in its absence.</p>
<p><i>And to suggest science is value free</i><br />
Something tells me you don&#8217;t understand what wertfrei means.</p>
<p><i>values underlie whether or not conceptions of race are actually scientific or not.</i><br />
No matter your values, when you feed a bunch of DNA into a computer and ask it to do clustering analysis, the result is the same.</p>
<p><i>Durkheim said that anything that is social is religious.</i><br />
Science is not inherently social (imagine a solitary immortal human in a universe like ours, it would most likely have a good deal of scientific discoveries) and not all social things are inherently religious. When a word is thrown around to mean everything, it no longer means anything.</p>
<p><i>I have to close this one with the suggestion that the term “Anglo” is another great example of a white social construct</i><br />
It was constructed by whites, yes, there weren&#8217;t nearly as many non-whites in the area at the time. It derives from the tribe of Angles and came to describe the English-speaking peoples with roots in England. Perhaps it could be argued that Saxon is just as good a term (I don&#8217;t actually know), but it&#8217;s hardly important. What is relevant is that nobody considers the French Anglos and &#8220;wogs begin at Calais&#8221; aside, they are universally accepted as white. Your use of the term indicates severe carelessness on your part.</p>
<p><i>t has such an elegant ring to it compared to the other terms I’ve heard</i><br />
What kinds of terms? &#8220;Hydraulic&#8221;? That&#8217;s a term. Unless you give me examples it&#8217;s impossible for me to understand your comparison.</p>
<p><i>…”Anglo”…white supremacy….</i><br />
Usually the use of ellipses is to indicate a pause or to allow the reader to fill in the blanks, but here I really don&#8217;t know what you&#8217;re getting at.
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-143" src="http://www.racismreview.com/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('143', 'add', 'www.racismreview.com/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <small id="karma-143-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</small>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-143" src="http://www.racismreview.com/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('143', 'subtract', 'www.racismreview.com/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <small id="karma-143-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</small></p>
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		<title>By: Neziha</title>
		<link>http://www.racismreview.com/blog/2007/11/12/dna-and-scientific-racism/comment-page-1/#comment-142</link>
		<dc:creator>Neziha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2007 04:25:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.racismreview.com/blog/?p=93#comment-142</guid>
		<description>The recent Venter diploid genome has shown that humans are about 99.5% similar, and perhaps less. The 99.9% figure is erroneous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The recent Venter diploid genome has shown that humans are about 99.5% similar, and perhaps less. The 99.9% figure is erroneous.
<p>Like or Dislike: <img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="up-142" src="http://www.racismreview.com/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_up.png" alt="Thumb up" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('142', 'add', 'www.racismreview.com/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_');" title="Thumb up" /> <small id="karma-142-up" style="font-size:12px; color:#009933;">0</small>&nbsp;<img style="padding: 0px; border: none; cursor: pointer;" onmouseover="this.width=this.width*1.3" onmouseout="this.width=this.width/1.2" id="down-142" src="http://www.racismreview.com/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/images/1_14_down.png" alt="Thumb down" onclick="javascript:ckratingKarma('142', 'subtract', 'www.racismreview.com/blog/wp-content/plugins/comment-rating/', '1_14_')" title="Thumb down" /> <small id="karma-142-down" style="font-size:12px; color:#990033;">0</small></p>
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